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JonDaFish
Trips


Joined: 15 Nov 2012
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:49 am
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I was wondering how forumites would handle the following situation involving the OPTAH rule and dealer error. Not just a bad beat story.

Our hypothetical Hero is playing 1/2NLH in a casino called, lets say, The Chippocrome, in touristy part of a busy capital city.

Hero has been playing a very tight game for about an hour and a half (in seat 1). Over the last 3 orbits has played a lot of hands and more than doubled his starting stack. At first using he used his image to take down orphan pots from late position and then has been hit by the deck (JJ, Ak, AQ and QQ) all these pots were taken down before show down, but the QQ was shown to the table.

Villain (in seat 6) has shown a tendency to limp/call a lot of pots with marginal holdings but to raise big with genuine hands a Cbet every time (usually pot, always in multiples of 5). He is an American tourist from Utah who clearly likes to be involved in the action.

In the hand in question, Hero is on btn and V is utg+1 - effective stacks are 245 (V just covers heros stack). PF Action goes limp, V raise to 15, fold to Hero who wakes up with red Aces, Hero 3bets to 50, folds to V who dwell calls. Flop comes QQ2 rnb, V leads out for 50, hero shoves for an additional 145. V goes into the tank for approximately 5 mins apologising for taking so long and clearly had a strong starting hand (but no Q). Hero is trying to not give any tells and stares at same spot of felt.

This is where it gets interesting. Other players are starting to get agitated and the dealer is constantly fidgeting. Then Hero hears a couple of gasps, an OMG and a few chuckles. The dealer while waiting for villains decision had somehow managed to expose a card which happened to be one of the 2 remaining queens. Hero did not see this happen and was unsure whether the exposed card came from the mucked cards or the stub, but at the time thought it didnt really change much as he put villain on KK, JJ or possibly AK.

Villain dwells for a further 2 or 3 minutes at which point seat 2 pipes up and says what the hell are you thinking so long about buddy. If you have a queen, call. If not, fold as he (hero) clearly has AA or KK!. Hero remains stoic trying to not give anything away about the strength of his hand. Villain feeling pressured by the other players immediately calls with his pocket jacks and proceeds to hit his two-outer.

If you were in Heros shoes, would you have done anything differently immediately after the dealer error or when the other players started to moan? Or even after the hand regarding dealer incompetence? Both had a major bearing on Vs decision (one allowing him to eliminate certain combinations from Heros range and the other breaking the OPTAH rule and putting him under pressure)?

Or is this one of the times that Hero should just take it on the chin and put it down to being violated by variance, despite the influence of other factors?
barmybadger
Closet Gooner


Joined: 24 Sep 2006
Posts: 4483
Location: nottinghamshire

PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:53 am
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the only real issue i see is whether thr exposed queen was going to be the turn card as this would have won you the pot
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Alex B
Straight Flush


Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 2856
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:20 pm
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You can't prevent the dealer error or the other player speaking, so there is nothing that you should do during the hand. Even if the exposed queen would have been the turn, there should be nothing you can do to avoid getting the stub reshuffled.

Luckily they both helped you get a call here.

Afterwards you could ask the floor if one-player-to-a-hand applies and what the penalties are (obviously it does). I'd only do this is the player that spoke wasn't that good for the game.
JonDaFish
Trips


Joined: 15 Nov 2012
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:40 am
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Thanks for the comments guys. I've always been a little reluctant to get the floor involved, so I wasn't sure if I had handled the situation badly.

Alex B wrote:

Afterwards you could ask the floor if one-player-to-a-hand applies and what the penalties are (obviously it does). I'd only do this is the player that spoke wasn't that good for the game.


^^Will consider this option whenever there is an OPTAH violation in the future.
syedshah20
High Card


Joined: 11 Oct 2014
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:46 am
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Villain dwells for a further 2 or 3 minutes at which point seat 2 pipes up and says what the hell are you thinking so long about buddy. If you have a queen, call. If not, fold as he (hero) clearly has AA or KK!. Hero remains stoic trying to not give anything away about the strength of his hand. Villain feeling pressured by the other players immediately calls with his pocket jacks and proceeds to hit his two-outer.
wwwired
High Card


Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:15 pm
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Call the clock if you feel another player is taking too long but abusing or mistreating another player can get you banned from a casino for life.

Abusive behavior, bullying, collusion, playing another players hand, reading another players hand, or any other etiquette violation is serious.

TDA Rules on this is state:
Quote:
61: Ethical Play
Poker is an individual game. Soft play will result in penalties, which may include chip forfeiture and/or disqualification. Chip dumping and other forms of collusion will result in disqualification.

62: Etiquette Violations
Repeat etiquette violations will result in penalties. Examples include but are not limited to: delay of game, unnecessarily touching other players cards or chips, repeatedly acting out of turn, betting out of reach of the dealer,abusive conduct, and excessive chatter.


Call the clock in a polite manner and a floorperson/TDA will determine if it's warranted and implement it if a reasonable time has passed based on the situation.

Repeated delays of play by a player could result in a warning and eventual penalty. Abuse, however, is entirely unacceptable and violates every principle of the game of poker.
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