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The Dean
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:49 pm
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News like this never surprises me, I was having a discussion (almost an argument) in a pub some weeks ago with a bloke that claimed the highest levels of horse racing were clean.....I told him not to be so naive and then he claimed that he knew what he was talking about because he "knew" a trainer.

Well I know four and I doubt that any of them would open up to me regarding what they did in private......why would they?? In my view for anyone to think that all sports at the highest level are 100% clean is either ignorance or naivety or a combination of both. People with money just want more of it and is basic human nature. So no surprise then to hear about what Lundekvam has just come out with.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/lu...ns-081045981.html
Rigsby
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:00 pm
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I think the first time i noticed spot fixing was when honest Harry's west ham kicked the ball straight out for a throw in from the kick off, im those days they had a spread on the time of the first throw in

some of the penalties given away make you wonder
Checkov
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:59 pm
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Fairly sure Le Tissier admitted to doing this ages ago.
The Dean
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:36 pm
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Checkov wrote:
Fairly sure Le Tissier admitted to doing this ages ago.



He did
TheBlueBoy
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:16 pm
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This is a summary of a conversation relayed to me by my brother, that his mate told to him, 5 minutes after it had taken place.

2 very well known jockeys were in a liverpool bar, enjoying a few beers and the relative anonymity of their surroundings, one of the lads-S, is a huge racing fan and obviously knew them. They welcomed him as he was/is not a nuisance, and the subject turned to the following days racing at a northern racecourse, and if there was any information that they may wish to share. Jockey A pointed at Jockey B and said, 'well he's gonna win the 1st'. A few more beers were shared by S and the 2 jockeys, until they bade him farewell.
S rings our kid and shared this info. He rang me the following morning and told me the prices for the horses, as both jockeys were riding in the race. 'A' was on the 6/4 fav, 'B' was on a 12/1 poke, in a field of ten. I told the lads in work and a few of them followed me in at 12/1. We watched the race in a little bookies, our horse was ridden vigorously from a wide stall to get to the lead, slowed it down but was not unduly hassled, with 2 furlongs to run, the fav started to close him down, but did not really give the horse maximum assistance until the leader had gone beyond recall, and closed at the line to give the impression of an unlucky loser.

A perfect set up, the other jockeys were more concerned about tracking the fav, that they let the winner get out of sight, so if anyone ever tries to tell me racing is straight, I say that most of it is.
The Dean
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:00 pm
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IMO the amount of cheating goes hand in glove with the size of the industry. Sure, there may be more safeguards now but this is offset by the greater number of people who are involved globally. The growth of the betting market over the past ten years has pumped billions into the industry.

This makes cheating more likely or at least it increases the number of people who are active in it even if it doesn't increase the percentage. If one person cheats out of 100 people then it is deemed a one off and catching this person can totally eliminate cheating. Make that 1% out of 50 million and suddenly the figure is 500k people cheating in some capacity.

Then it becomes impossible to stop. The argument that only people at the lower end cheat because they need the money the most doesn't stack up and is not supported by the evidence. Online poker is no different. If you increase the opportunity to cheat and then increase the potential financial incentives then more people will at the very least investigate the opportunity to do so......its simple cause and effect. It is when untold thousands of people view cheating as "acceptable" or they have a "others are doing it so why shouldn't I" mentality or as in online poker "get these people before they get you" or "playing straight is for suckers and I ain't no sucker"........whatever the rationale......people justify it or at least a certain percentage will.

Millions of people cheating worldwide is not a pie in the sky figure......it is simply an acceptable percentage out of what is a massive global betting/gambling population. I quoted 1% and 50 million.......that figure could quite easily be 2%-3% out of 250 million and they are not all going to be small time.
Alex B
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:37 am
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Horse racing needs buy-ins for races like a poker tournament.

The cost of entry and prize money is too low compared to the pay-off from cheating.

If each race cost 10k for a 100k prize fund +the added prize money, there would be fewer trainers running horses slowly to get a handicap down, and pulling up in a betting scam would be far more expensive.

It would also help solve the problem of who gets to enter which race - just make it a Dutch auction and raise the stakes until the correct number of runners apply - there will still be racing at every level just like poker tournaments, but the horses would need to be a an appropriate value to the stakes.
Alex B
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:43 am
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Some time in the last few years (I forget which season unfortunately), in a televised Man Utd match, just before half time, a friend and I watched Rooney volley the ball back over the by-line for a corner from pretty much his own half way line.

It was odd enough that we were both instantly saying WTF & discussing it, but the strange thing was that the commentators never mentioned it.

Then later it turned out his dad was into betting scams, so presumably they were linked.
The Dean
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:33 am
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Alex B wrote:
Horse racing needs buy-ins for races like a poker tournament.

The cost of entry and prize money is too low compared to the pay-off from cheating.

If each race cost 10k for a 100k prize fund +the added prize money, there would be fewer trainers running horses slowly to get a handicap down, and pulling up in a betting scam would be far more expensive.

It would also help solve the problem of who gets to enter which race - just make it a Dutch auction and raise the stakes until the correct number of runners apply - there will still be racing at every level just like poker tournaments, but the horses would need to be a an appropriate value to the stakes.




Fair comment but thats looking at the recent prize money issues within horse racing in a vacuum. It hasn't always been that way and the financial incentives in other sports are many times greater but yet cheating still happens as in Premier League players spot fixing and other leading sportsmen in other sports who have been found guilty of corruption despite making money that the rest of us can only dream about.

The prize money issues at the bottom end of horse racing create added incentive for cheating but they do not manufacture cheating full stop.
barmybadger
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:44 am
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i remember pompey scoring 3 own goals against man utd
cant remember the first 2 but marc wilsons was as deliberate as they come
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Rigsby
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:04 am
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barmybadger wrote:
i remember pompey scoring 3 own goals against man utd
cant remember the first 2 but marc wilsons was as deliberate as they come


was honest harry manager at the time?
TheBlueBoy
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:26 am
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Alex B wrote:
Horse racing needs buy-ins for races like a poker tournament.

The cost of entry and prize money is too low compared to the pay-off from cheating.

If each race cost 10k for a 100k prize fund +the added prize money, there would be fewer trainers running horses slowly to get a handicap down, and pulling up in a betting scam would be far more expensive.

It would also help solve the problem of who gets to enter which race - just make it a Dutch auction and raise the stakes until the correct number of runners apply - there will still be racing at every level just like poker tournaments, but the horses would need to be a an appropriate value to the stakes.


Alex, seriously have a look at horse racing. There was a race that got boycotted so it was a walkover on weds night, look into why that happened.
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