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Ann Tills
One Pair


Joined: 14 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:24 pm
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local pub game final table - blinds are 600/1200 6 players left and utg plus 2 goes all in for 2700,it's folded to the big blind.should he call with any two cards? he obviously had chips to call but folded showning 7 3 off,i argued he should call saying he had just given the player 1800 chips but others at table disagreed.interested to know whether i have a good point or not.
darrensprengers
Misclick


Joined: 10 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:25 pm
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yes
StGilmore
Straight Flush


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:39 pm
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darrensprengers wrote:
yes


aw come one sirsprengs - surely you can be more verbose than this?

I'm humbling wondering:

how many chips does BB have?

It's not BB's job to be the table mallcop and pull anyone/everyone up is it?
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Seb
Full House


Joined: 29 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:01 pm
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I don't think it's a terrible call if bb only has 2700. Especially in a pub. Imagine how angry they'd be!
TheBlueBoy
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:55 pm
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Getting 3/1 if my maths is correct? Twice on the sabbath.
dwh103
Full House


Joined: 26 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:14 am
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If it was a bubble/ITM situation and you were successfully bullying the table as a big stack then it might be more +EV to keep them in.

But it's a pub tournament, so the majority of the time it's likely to be a auto-call. Could find a fold if you had 6-8BBs or so I guess.
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Ann Tills
One Pair


Joined: 14 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:39 am
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it wasn't near bubble and the big blind had enough chips to call - he folded purely and simply because he had 7 3 off.
ryanpb
Full House


Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:12 am
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Reverse implied odds are disgusting I'd fold 7-3 off as well, it's not even like you can outplay them on the flop. I'd put the chips you save to better use later
Jon MW
The British Cowboy


Joined: 17 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:15 am
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_ryanpb_ wrote:
Reverse implied odds are disgusting I'd fold 7-3 off as well, it's not even like you can outplay them on the flop. I'd put the chips you save to better use later


I'm confused isn't reversed implied odds related to how much you can lose by putting more chips in to the middle? And also if you hit and they hit better - I don't see how either are relevant - or have I missed the point about reverse implied odds?
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ryanpb
Full House


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:56 am
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Hey Jon, I mean it quite literally like you say...

Quote:
isn't reversed implied odds related to how much you can lose by putting more chips in to the middle



I'm saying that if you put the extra money in, in this spot, you'll will lose more value than you will gain as the chips you save have a greater use than being a 3/1 punt against any two, as well as the positive implication of not giving more chips to the short stack in an unfavourable situation.

Sorry I'm not explaining myself very clearly, i'll get back in my box
evelyn
Quads


Joined: 16 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:28 pm
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_ryanpb_ wrote:
Reverse implied odds are disgusting I'd fold 7-3 off as well, it's not even like you can outplay them on the flop. I'd put the chips you save to better use later


It's an all-in. You can't lose any more than that lol. At 3/1 it's an insta call.
lancs69
One Pair


Joined: 07 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:04 pm
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I'd call, but try and buy insurance off one of the remaining players just in case I lose.

I'd need to know more details though, such as how many players get paid? Has a saver been done for the bubble (say 80p each?)? Are most players trying to ladder their way up the prize board rather than going for the win?
Jackdaw
Full House


Joined: 01 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:24 pm
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"Insta" call.
MartinOwlMan
Straight


Joined: 01 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:19 pm
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It's an all in situation - absolutely no more betting: as such there is nothing implied about any odds - it is a straightforward question of absolute odds.

Reverse implied odds are a factor when considering a bet where it is possible to hit a good but not best hand and therefore lose money on later streets. This is the opposite of implied odds where you are calling a bet with both you and the opponent having money back and the likelihood is you will be getting more of their chips if you hit your hand.

Examples - assuming both players are deep:

Your opponent has AK and you call their bet with A7 you have reverse implied odds because if u hit the 7 you won't get paid but if you hit the A you will pay off some bets.

Your opponent has AA and you call a bet and have 66 you have implied odds because they are likely to pay you off if you hit the 6 but you will get away from it if you don't.

Both these are simplified somewhat as in the first example you can hit a hand that will get you paid and in the letter you can hit set under set and suffer the biggest reverse implied odds imaginable, but you get the idea
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