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MaxWatts
One Pair
Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 12
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 Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:10 pm
Post subject: Chip Dumping? |
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Hi,
I was playing a £5 sit and go on Ladbrokes today, when the following hand occurred.
Kipishas was short-stacked and was shoving anything - then this happened... The analysis below speaks for itself, but essentially, Kipishas is BB with 400 in and 640 left behind, who has been shoving every hand, raised by [I contend, his associate [with etymologically similar user names...]] to 800, then shoves. Big stack, with 4175 left AFTER his raise, who could still fold to the money, declines to put in another 240!!!
My grannie would call this with 7-2 offsuit...
I say this is blatant collusion/cheating/chip dumping. Needless to say, Kipishas made the money...
Any thoughts?
Max
p.s. I assumed that 'hand analysis' was the correct thread? Apologies if not.
;---------------------------------
** Hand # 2787382914 starting - 2009-08-20 19:05:23
** Normal 10 Seat [Hold 'em] (400.00|800.00 NL - STT) Real Money
Kipishas sitting in seat 1 with €1040.00
MaxWatts sitting in seat 2 with €2127.50
doubit sitting in seat 4 with €3742.50
shamuska sitting in seat 7 with €4975.00[Dealer]
ANDYLIU sitting in seat 9 with €3115.00
ANDYLIU posted the small blind - €200.00
Kipishas posted the big blind - €400.00
** Dealing cards to MaxWatts: 7c, Kd
MaxWatts folded
doubit folded
shamuska raised to €800.00
ANDYLIU folded
Kipishas went all-in - €640.00
shamuska folded
Kipishas mucks:
Kipishas wins €2040.00 from the main pot
Rake: €0.00
;--------------------------------- |
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Nem
Moderator
Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 17174
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Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Chip Dumping? |
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| MaxWatts wrote: | Hi,
I was playing a £5 sit and go on Ladbrokes today, when the following hand occurred.
Kipishas was short-stacked and was shoving anything - then this happened... The analysis below speaks for itself, but essentially, Kipishas is BB with 400 in and 640 left behind, who has been shoving every hand, raised by [I contend, his associate [with etymologically similar user names...]] to 800, then shoves. Big stack, with 4175 left AFTER his raise, who could still fold to the money, declines to put in another 240!!!
My grannie would call this with 7-2 offsuit...
I say this is blatant collusion/cheating/chip dumping. Needless to say, Kipishas made the money...
Any thoughts?
Max
p.s. I assumed that 'hand analysis' was the correct thread? Apologies if not.
;---------------------------------
** Hand # 2787382914 starting - 2009-08-20 19:05:23
** Normal 10 Seat [Hold 'em] (400.00|800.00 NL - STT) Real Money
Kipishas sitting in seat 1 with €1040.00
MaxWatts sitting in seat 2 with €2127.50
doubit sitting in seat 4 with €3742.50
shamuska sitting in seat 7 with €4975.00[Dealer]
ANDYLIU sitting in seat 9 with €3115.00
ANDYLIU posted the small blind - €200.00
Kipishas posted the big blind - €400.00
** Dealing cards to MaxWatts: 7c, Kd
MaxWatts folded
doubit folded
shamuska raised to €800.00
ANDYLIU folded
Kipishas went all-in - €640.00
shamuska folded
Kipishas mucks:
Kipishas wins €2040.00 from the main pot
Rake: €0.00
;--------------------------------- |
$5 sng on Ladbrokes. Some of the worst poker players in the world play these so I doubt it is anything fishy, just donks playing like donks. |
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evelyn
Quads
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2094
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Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:18 pm
Post subject: |
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| Misclick? |
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CarpeAnnum
Flush
Joined: 09 Oct 2005
Posts: 617
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Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:23 pm
Post subject: |
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| If it's not a misclick or stupidity then it is collusion 100% |
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MaxWatts
One Pair
Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 12
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:32 am
Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | $5 sng on Ladbrokes. Some of the worst poker players in the world play these so I doubt it is anything fishy, just donks playing like donks. |
Thanks for your vote of confidence, Nem! 
Off thread warning...
Some of us don't have the luxury of a large bankroll, or a third party funding us... In any event, Texas Hold'em is not the preserve of rocket scientists - there's actually very little to it, which is why the game has evolved into a 'celebrity' led marketing exercise.
One man's donk is another commentator's "aggressive, genius, 19-year-old Norwegian girl who confounds all and sundry with her dazzling, unpredictable skills she learned while playing illegally for years"...
I believe that the so-called 'top players' would find it very hard to get anywhere at these low limits, precisely because donks will shove a 2k stack on hand one, with the blinds at 10/20 ! Would you take your chances here, even holding A-A? If the answer is yes, then you're mad - if the answer is no, then you've been had by a donk... See the problem?
This is compounded by the fact that HeroDonk1 WILL call HeroDonk2 with zilch, and one of them will triumph, doubling up, and then become a pain in the a**e with his big stack.
This is made even worse by the fact that there are sometimes 3 or 4 of them seated. They all collide in a bunfight, and one of them is now unassailable. It matters not which one ends up on top of the pile, as far as the earnest 'apprentice' is concerned, it just means you ain't winning... You either join them, and take your chances in what has now become a game of 'chicken', or you fall by the wayside. The luck factor in poker is too high, period. It's intrinsic to the game.
Just yesterday, I watched the televised PartyPoker final, during which Marc Goodwin's A-10 triumphed over Neil Channing's K-K in one hand. Any donks here??? Either of them possessed of some 'secret' knowledge that I'm not capable of understanding. Nope. Genius is as genius does...
You'll glean from this that I half agree with your 'worst player' comment, but it's not all of us...
Further, if you saw the self-same scenario at a £100, or £500 table, how does it differ, exactly? Still donks?
Nah, this was collusion, all other considerations secondary, and I'd like to play proper poker somewhere without being cheated...
Max |
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ReggieK
The Guvnor
Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Posts: 4971
Location: Essex, Uk
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:53 am
Post subject: |
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Thats a very good rant, I likes 
And yes, it was collusion
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The coalition is waning and dying, the only option is to vote Labour in 2015~ Teacher Dave |
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MartinOwlMan
Straight
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 280
Location: Leeds
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:32 am
Post subject: |
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Looks like collusion to me too.
Would your granny really min raise with 72o when the BB is a short stack?
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senna12
One Pair
Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Posts: 18
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:22 am
Post subject: goodwin |
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| yes goodwin did go all in with a 10 against channings kk but that was due to the fact channing had raised 4 hands in a row where every1 was folding to him. |
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MaxWatts
One Pair
Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 12
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:36 am
Post subject: |
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Haha!
Thanks for all the comments. I DID try and keep it a polite rant...
Looks like I'll be suffering the vagaries of small stakes tables for a while yet!
p.s. I understand the Goodwin v. Channing situ - the point I was making was that context/timing is everything. You have NO way of telling which of the 4/5 raises on the trot is the real deal - I'd have done the same, as I'm sure 99% of people on these forums would.
I see rag-ace madness all the time, even when the blinds are low relative to the stacks. My A-K has been beaten a zillion times by heroes with A-2 whose kicker flops, that's exactly why the game has changed. "Those boyos don't know the rules", to quote a line from The Long Good Friday...
p.p.s. Aha! No, my granny would NOT min raise with 7-2o against the short stack. Precisely. Therefore, she would have had some sort of hand, and therefore[2] she would not lay it down. Therefore[3], if she did lay it down, she would be colluding! Kill Granny...
Thanks again,
Max |
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Paddy1969
Flush
Joined: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 706
Location: London
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:33 pm
Post subject: |
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Welcome to the forum.
I likes your style (rant) 
I do concur that it is either chip dumping or a misclick. I would follow the villain/s to see if it is collusion. |
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ThechipLeadV
Smart-Arse
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 6278
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:06 pm
Post subject: |
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| MaxWatts wrote: |
I believe that the so-called 'top players' would find it very hard to get anywhere at these low limits, precisely because donks will shove a 2k stack on hand one, with the blinds at 10/20 ! Would you take your chances here, even holding A-A? If the answer is yes, then you're mad - if the answer is no, then you've been had by a donk... See the problem? |
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peligruso
Full House
Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 1014
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:28 pm
Post subject: |
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I think id take my chances and call with AA, i am crazy like that  |
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evelyn
Quads
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2094
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:28 pm
Post subject: |
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| Obv good players can beat the low limits quite easily.Boku started his latest challenge playing 0.10c 360s.After receiving several donk spankings he realised those guys don't fold (0.10c obv means nothing to them) and adjusted accordingly.If you think the two players on your table were colluding then do a player v player check on sharkscope to see if they play the same tables a lot and report them to the poker site. |
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Davy G
Straight
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Posts: 416
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:09 pm
Post subject: |
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| sharkscope doesn't cover Microgaming sng's. |
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evelyn
Quads
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2094
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:14 am
Post subject: |
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| Davy G wrote: | | sharkscope doesn't cover Microgaming sng's. |
Whoops sorry. |
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