Strange KK hand - what to do?

[Henrik_Lohan]

I'm playing an $8 rebuy qualifier for a seat in a qualifier to a live event. Table is 9 handed and I have an average chip stack at level 25-50 (early stages) Note that my strategy in these rebuy tournaments in not to go all in with almost any two cards but too play relatively tight to exploit others erratic play.

I’m on the button and find myself with pocket Kings in the hole.

The action is folded around to player 2 off the button (let’s call him / her Jo) who makes it 150 to go.

As it is the early stages I have seen very little action from this player so with Kings on the button I decide that raising of the preferred option as I don’t want to let him see a flop with say Ax by just calling. I make it 500 to go and another 350 to Jo.

Jo then calls and there are over 1000 chips in the middle. (40% of what I have in front of me)

Flop comes - Ac As 4h Given that my original concern was that Jo was holding Ax, as I re-raise there would be a good chance that Jo would have folded Ax so therefore I figure that Jo could be holding something like A J...I was not too concerned re a small-medium pocket pair and certainly not worried about Jo holding 44 and having the house.

Jo Checks

As suspected that If Jo had the ace he would check every time to try and either hope that I make a continuation bet and he can check call or check raise. I also feel that by throwing in a bet with this type of flop would not also allow me to represent an ace further on in the hand and if I made a continuation bet it would give Jo the chance to bluff raise me with nothing and I would be on no man’s land. Therefore I check.

Turn comes 5c - again no change in my opinion I still feel I have the best hand if Joe does not have the ace.

Jo Checks.

I was half expecting some kind of value bet on the turn but I guess the 5 did not give him the opportunity to. I now really firmly believe he has an ace. SO I check...

River comes 7s and Jo goes all in for 4,600 around 4x what’s in the pot.....The 5 I suppose could have made a str8 for a holding of 36 of 38 but there’s no way that Jo raised with this pre flops so I now ask myself why he over bets the pot... Would he do so with an A? Surely if he had an ace he would have bet for value? I now feel that he put my on AK or something and I had the trips on the flop hence his checking. I now felt that he has 55 of 77 in his hand giving him the house and the nuts if he felt that I wasn't holding AA....mu holding id getting beat by 44, 55, and 77 and Ax all hands that would fit with how he played the hand. No question I fold the Kings and show them to the table. I am then barraged by comments from the other player saying that they can believe that I folded Kings.....I don’t see how I could have called. I think good fold. as I limited the damage to 500 chips approx. - I could have lost all of them

My question is that would anyone do anything differently and if so what. Also does anyone have any different thoughts on his hole cards?

Cheers
Henrik

[X]

I don't understand why you didn't once bet your hand post-flop. You end up facing a bet for your whole stack with no clearer idea of what your opponents hand is than when the betting had finished pre-flop.

I'd have bet after his check on the flop (650ish) you've got Kings, there are only 2 Aces left in the deck and the only other hand that beats you at this stage is 44. If you end-up facing a check-raise, you can let your hand go if you believe him.

At the end, I'd guess he had some kind of pocket pair 8+ but it's difficult [for me] to define the hand with so little information.
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[StGilmore]

I agree with X. Especially because of this:

[Henrik_Lohan]

Cheers for the feedback guys......I now look back and agree with X that a c bet on the flop would be the best play here. Although I disagree with Gilmore as I a had an ace I would check the flop 8 times out of 10 as I know that I would have him crushed and I my mindset would be very much geared up toward extracting maximum value especially as there were no flush or Str8 draws on the flop.....

[StGilmore]

I just think there is nil to be gained by checking the flop. I think you can keep opponent guessing and retain control in the hand if you lead out.
you said:

As suspected that If Jo had the ace he would check every time to try and either hope that I make a continuation bet and he can check call or check raise. I also feel that by throwing in a bet with this type of flop would not also allow me to represent an ace further on in the hand and if I made a continuation bet it would give Jo the chance to bluff raise me with nothing and I would be on no man’s land. Therefore I check.

You then check back the turn with the same reasoning. It seems to me if you never contest the pot, you don't win except against an exceptionally passive player. To me, I read you as scared, and I can rep any A or full boats with the small pocket pairs. And I am a safer type player.

Of course it's possible opponent has an Ace. But you don't have any idea what opponent had. The river shove is polarizing and I think you played the river correctly at the end of your play. But I think your passivity has narrowed your range down so much that nearly any opponent could shove here with whatever they called your re-raise with and you could be beating a wide range of those shoving hands.
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[xxxxzxxxx]

[xxxxzxxxx]

I dont normally post in hh threads, as u can probably tell by my drunk flippant comments above.

But laying in bed last night, thinking about this hand made me mad...

Because surely ANY other way of playing the hand would have been better than your line of check, check, fold.

You seem to have played, not just this hand, but any hand, in the optimal worse way possible. Imagine you played a tournament and you took this line with every hand you played. How far would you get ?

And your rationale for taking this line was that 'you only lost 500 chips'

You do realize this is exactly the same as saying 'i lost 500 chips'
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high card - ace

[SeanFoley]

[knifeboy62]

[knifeboy62]

[StGilmore]

[MattF]

Hero's stack size is relatively small compared to flop pot so absolutely no need to bet the flop with an ace. Hard to see what worse hands are calling more than one street and villain might check-raise bluff. So basically checking flop is fine IMO.

Turn I think there's more of a case for a bet. Normally I would expect villain to bet here with an ace but perhaps he was planning a check-raise. We'd want to fold to a check-raise so checking it back again is reasonable but it strongly suggests we don't have an ace. On the plus side it does induce bluffs from worse hands on the river.

Now the villain throws a spanner in the works. I'm sure you would've snapped off a normal sized bet but he spoils the fun with a shove. I'm inclined to believe he has it here. Probably 77 or another boat. He's expecting an ace to call and wants to make it look like a bluff so you'll call with worse. Opponents at this level are not Tom Dwan. I think he always has it here.

Because this was a tourney there's a case for just taking down the pot so I think I prefer a bet on the turn. If you encounter resistance you have to give it up. I think your play is better for a cash game.

[Mycron]

[ryanpb]

My play would be

C - bet flop

If you got a flat call back I'd be worried

If you got a re-raise I'd shove

- - - -


The way it played out

Makes me think he had an ace, he's waiting for you to stab by checking behind, then frustrated by lack of action on river so shoves making it look like a bluff and trying to induce a call
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@ryanpb

[PokerSensation]

I played it EXACTLY as you would. Made it 500 then checked all the way. You did nothing that bad imo.

Our only difference is I would snap fold and not think about it or make a thread about it.

He has a boat here.