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When is AKs a 5 bet shove in a tournament
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knifeboy62
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:59 pm
Post subject: When is AKs a 5 bet shove in a tournament		 Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
From last night's league match. Level 2. Action as below.



Questions I have:
1. Is this too aggro with AKs early doors in a fast structure tournament?
2. If too aggro with 44BB what BB does the shove become automatic?
3. Can I call pre-flop and fit or fold the flop - leaving me 26BB?

Thoughts welcome.

Last edited by knifeboy62 on Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:07 pm; edited 2 times in total
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stowjon
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:04 pm
Post subject: Re: When is AKs a 5 bet shove in a tournament		 Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
i think you may have put the wrong hand up replayer pmsl
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knifeboy62
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:08 pm
Post subject: Re: When is AKs a 5 bet shove in a tournament		 Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
stowjon wrote:
i think you may have put the wrong hand up replayer pmsl


blimey you're quick off the mark - corrected now - finger trouble with cut and pasting my end, sorry.
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stowjon
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:14 pm
Post subject: Re: When is AKs a 5 bet shove in a tournament		 Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
1: yes i think this is to aggro considering you have an UTG raise the a re-raiser after you have called.

2: how many bbs id say you should be shoving this with 18 bbs or under

3: easy to call and fold a missed flop IMO with 26BBs left
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knifeboy62
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:19 pm
Post subject: Re: When is AKs a 5 bet shove in a tournament		 Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
stowjon wrote:
1: yes i think this is to aggro considering you have an UTG raise the a re-raiser after you have called.

2: how many bbs id say you should be shoving this with 18 bbs or under

3: easy to call and fold a missed flop IMO with 26BBs left


cheers Jon, good to hear from people that play these things way more often that I do.
I play so much more six-max cash at 100BB these days that frankly I lose my mind in full ring in the 20-50BB range.

I'll rein it back for future events, watch out next week Smile
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stowjon
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:22 pm
Post subject: Re: When is AKs a 5 bet shove in a tournament		 Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
Doh!

glass considered tapped
Mr. Green
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knifeboy62
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:37 pm
Post subject: Re: When is AKs a 5 bet shove in a tournament		 Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
stowjon wrote:
Doh!

glass considered tapped
Mr. Green


Smile no point coming to the aquarium and not ever touching the glass.

PS. i'm prob worse still at 6max cash online, before anyone else points that out.
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oneshotbob
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:39 pm
Post subject: Re: When is AKs a 5 bet shove in a tournament		 Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
I am flabbergasted that this hand occurred. In my experience of mob games on Genting, the ace always gets there on the river, turning 7% into 100%.

Wall
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darrensprengers
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:56 pm
Post subject: Re: When is AKs a 5 bet shove in a tournament		 Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
When they 4-bet
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The Dean
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:19 pm
Post subject: Re: When is AKs a 5 bet shove in a tournament		 Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
darrensprengers wrote:
When they 4-bet



+1

I think I am folding pre-flop here. The four bet just looks too scary to me with 44bb pre and I still have 38bb if I fold and an M of around 25. Your AK cuts down on AA-KK combo's by half and so it isnt easy to be dominated. However given the betting then the fold equity looks low given that the lines taken by both villains looks commital. I think you are usually up against another A-K after the four bet at least and so you are either tying, a 50-50 or a huge dog.

I know it looks easy to be swept away with a suited slick but I dont think that you need to gamble this early and you should find plenty of chances to pick up chips. I know it feels great to win these pots because your stack feels really comfortable but you have denied yourself the time to pick chips up when you are knocked out. Also I think the four bettor probably folded A-K IMO when it got called and 5-bet shoved.
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knifeboy62
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:33 pm
Post subject: Re: When is AKs a 5 bet shove in a tournament		 Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
The Dean wrote:
darrensprengers wrote:
When they 4-bet



+1

I think I am folding pre-flop here. The four bet just looks too scary to me with 44bb pre and I still have 38bb if I fold and an M of around 25. Your AK cuts down on AA-KK combo's by half and so it isnt easy to be dominated. However given the betting then the fold equity looks low given that the lines taken by both villains looks commital. I think you are usually up against another A-K after the four bet at least and so you are either tying, a 50-50 or a huge dog.

I know it looks easy to be swept away with a suited slick but I dont think that you need to gamble this early and you should find plenty of chances to pick up chips. I know it feels great to win these pots because your stack feels really comfortable but you have denied yourself the time to pick chips up when you are knocked out. Also I think the four bettor probably folded A-K IMO when it got called and 5-bet shoved.


thanks. That makes a lot of sense, as always. The reason I discounted the 4 bet quite a lot was that it was a good spot for their larger stack to put me on a light squeeze after the min raise and call. The real trigger for me should have been the min-bet / 4 bet cold call by UTG where JJ was probably right in the centre of their range. Best case I was on same hand here and everything else behind. Next time it's call pre and fold on flop for me. Tx all.
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SamJess
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:56 pm
Post subject: Re: When is AKs a 5 bet shove in a tournament		 Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
This is an interesting spot in low buy-in tournments and I see two schools of thought.

The 1st is to try and 'flip' an early double-up. This is often the result of overvaluing your hand. (Ironically also common with JJ.)

The 2nd (the one I concur with) has already been posted.

Calling pre and folding flop is horrendous IMHO.

I think you need to raise slightly more pre. I'd go 200-240. Fold to the button re-raise which will be 600+ and UTG all-in....

Simplifies your hand immensely.
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Josh Ivan
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Location: Melbourne Australia
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:05 am
Post subject: Re: When is AKs a 5 bet shove in a tournament		 Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
+ 1
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