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gandalf55
Wizard
Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 2552
Location: London
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 Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:06 pm
Post subject: Call or fold? |
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Bogus
At Won with No 28
Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 4555
Location: Hendon (Deception Central)
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Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Call or fold? |
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Don't matter what they are, getting AK in there everytime in that situation, what else you want to play?
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X
Quads
Joined: 08 Oct 2009
Posts: 1891
Location: Nottingham
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Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Call or fold? |
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Obviously it's nicer to shove than to call. However... there's no way on Earth I'm folding AK in that spot.
You were unlucky, but you need to get it in there every time IMHO.
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hackett
Straight Flush
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 3265
Location: Being financially raped by low life scum who are desperate for a few hundred - Have a guess who?????
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Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Call or fold? |
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Interesting - I play SnG's on Stars up to the $15 level and its frighting to think SN's are raping it that low.
I understand exactly what JP is meaning especially with the next player only having 4 bb's - soon to be in the blinds and most certainly playing any combination.
Problem i have is that Ckesters push here is only ever good with 7 3 if he knows you understand ICM and will fold almost everything?
Honestly i probably call in this situation as well, which may just be a leak on my part i don't know.
Would be interesting to hear Evelyns thoughts on this, think he has posted relating to ICM in the past.
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gandalf55
Wizard
Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 2552
Location: London
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Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Call or fold? |
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ICM says FOLD! Only call with TT+ assuming Ckestor is pushing any 2. I in fact didn't insta-call because I thought it was a close decision due to the stack size of the other 2. Actually only stuck the hand in SnG Wiz after I posted this up.
Assuming Ckestor is paying any attention (and he is playing a load of tables) it should be pretty obvious I do understand ICM, though maybe I'm disproving this by calling here. As he did manage to post a smiley in the chat box after the remarks of the other guy I'm assuming he was paying a reasonable degree of attention.
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TheBlueBoy
Straight Flush
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 3714
Location: All over it.
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:47 am
Post subject: Re: Call or fold? |
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| X wrote: | Obviously it's nicer to shove than to call. However... there's no way on Earth I'm folding AK in that spot.
You were unlucky, but you need to get it in there every time IMHO. |
Pretty much this, 'less someone posts why this is a fold, and gives me and you the math(s) then every time I reckon. |
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the shiver
Full House
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 1353
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:02 am
Post subject: Re: Call or fold? |
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Are you playing to WIN or cash?
If its the former....screw ICM here
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gandalf55
Wizard
Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 2552
Location: London
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Call or fold? |
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| the shiver wrote: | Are you playing to WIN or cash?
If its the former....screw ICM here |
I understand what you mean by the WIN or cash question. I can't work out how it's relevant in making the decision though. Could you explain your thinking,please?
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gandalf55
Wizard
Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 2552
Location: London
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Call or fold? |
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| TheBlueBoy wrote: | | X wrote: | Obviously it's nicer to shove than to call. However... there's no way on Earth I'm folding AK in that spot.
You were unlucky, but you need to get it in there every time IMHO. |
Pretty much this, 'less someone posts why this is a fold, and gives me and you the math(s) then every time I reckon. |
ICM figures as happened
Start EV End EV Diff Player
$16.79 $0.00 ($16.79) gandalf55
$8.30 $15.17 $6.87 torque71
$11.13 $16.60 $5.47 JPeso41
$21.83 $26.27 $4.44 Ckestor
ICM figures if I had won the hand
hand order KcAs > 3h7h probability 61.3253%
gandalf55 7240, icm ev $22.36
torque71 1250, icm ev $8.34
JPeso41 1765, icm ev $11.21
Ckestor 3245, icm ev $16.13
Therefore I am risking $16.79 to win $5.57 (22.36-16.79) on a hand I am 61% to win
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the shiver
Full House
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 1353
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Call or fold? |
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| gandalf55 wrote: | | the shiver wrote: | Are you playing to WIN or cash?
If its the former....screw ICM here |
I understand what you mean by the WIN or cash question. I can't work out how it's relevant in making the decision though. Could you explain your thinking,please? |
Firstly Gandalf i have to admit im not strong on the ICM front so my opinion maybe flawed here, but in your own words hes pushing ATC here and your gonna have 60% at worst against that and a high % of the time your gonna have more. You will have close to 50% of the chips in play if you win with 3 opponents who have 5 big blinds. OFC chip stacks are relevant here, its the whole case of the argument. Your snapping any of the other 2 with this hand. I just think its a great spot to take a chance to put me in a controlling position to win and not be at the mercy of ICM. Does ICM say fold tens here also?..
On a side note if your playing $6 SNG turbo's and 2 of your 3 opponents are astute with ICM it just goes to show how ridculously tough online poker is these days
I played live friday in a £1-2 cash game and a guy went all in UTG in the dark pre flop for £104
online v live has COMPLETELY flip flopped imo
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gandalf55
Wizard
Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 2552
Location: London
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Call or fold? |
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| the shiver wrote: |
Does ICM say fold tens here also?..
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If villain is playing ATC, ICM says call with TT,JJ,QQ,KK,AA.
If villain is playing an 'average' pushing range ICM says call with KK and AA
I must get my lazy arse out of the house and play some live games. Was one of the first to register online at the Fox and still haven't been 
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the shiver
Full House
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 1353
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Call or fold? |
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| gandalf55 wrote: |
I must get my lazy arse out of the house and play some live games. Was one of the first to register online at the Fox and still haven't been |
If your into ICM go play some live cash games, your jaw will hit the floor at some of the things you'll see 
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smoothcallz
Straight
Joined: 05 May 2009
Posts: 417
Location: Leicester
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Call or fold? |
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| the shiver wrote: | | gandalf55 wrote: |
I must get my lazy arse out of the house and play some live games. Was one of the first to register online at the Fox and still haven't been |
If your into ICM go play some live cash games, your jaw will hit the floor at some of the things you'll see |
Does ICM apply to cash games? 
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the shiver
Full House
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 1353
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Call or fold? |
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| smoothcallz wrote: | | the shiver wrote: | | gandalf55 wrote: |
I must get my lazy arse out of the house and play some live games. Was one of the first to register online at the Fox and still haven't been |
If your into ICM go play some live cash games, your jaw will hit the floor at some of the things you'll see |
Does ICM apply to cash games? |
was thinking along risk reward lines
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Ckestor
High Card
Joined: 04 Apr 2012
Posts: 1
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Call or fold? |
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Hello guys. I always wanted to see in this kind of thread somebody involved pop in and here I am to do it I googled me been stoned right now and found this
I do push on any 2 there, especially cause that guy is a reg. I actually push on any2 there on any player at 7 probablly cause I am not adapted well to this stake but sng wizz says I can push there on any2 till a range of 17,3 (A7off, A2s, KQoff, K10s) witch I think is the range witch a fish will have, even if people are crazy at 7$ in that spot not even a fish is gona risk on more than K10s and about the regs, you can see them here debating about calling on AK so I think it's good to play like this at 7 and the AK call was def good acording to sng wizz cause I push on any2
Hahahhaha about the chat I multitable 20 tables, play 200 a day but do my best to chat cause as broke as I am I still have the stars and people feel encouraged, love poker more if a supernova says something lol cause when I was at the start I always wanted to talk to team poker stars or supernova lol It's the best I can do working tehnically as an ''entertainer'' for the people that support 1mil$ profit a year working 5 timess less at 100$+ sng where I was before the world record in sng downswing hit me hahhaahhaha sorry for the stold equity here at 7 caused by my maniac don't-wana-go-broke multitabling lol
I suggest everybody to talk nice and regulary at the table to the people cause your job is to entertain them |
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