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Koumari Boy
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:24 pm
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Sent this to The Alderney gambling Commission earlier today:

sent to: christie.crawford@agcc.gg


Dear Sirs

Further to yesterdays hearing in London

Could you pleae answer me the following question with regard to the 250k licence fee that Full Tilt Poker have promised to pay you in the next seven days?

If there is a shortfall of player funds which means Full Tilt Poker cannot pay their players and they havent generated any money from any activities for the past four weeks (nor will they do so for the forseeable future) where is the money coming from to pay their lawyers and your license fee?

It is surely going to cause an even greater shortfall in the funds needing to be paid back to the players at some future date?

As such you are facillitating the theft of further funds from player accounts and are actively taking the proceeds of a crime but I await your answer which will hopefully reassure me.

Can you give an assurance that should players lose money from their accounts at Full Tilt Poker that you will return this money to future administrators to lessen the shortfall in those player account funds?


...and their reply

Dear Mr. xxxxxxxxxx,

Thank you for your email. Unfortunately, Alderney Gambling Control Commission is unable to comment further at this time. Please note that further details will be published on our website when they are available.


Kind regards,

Alderney Gambling Control Commission

Not surprising really

Anyway I reckon if any player loses anything they would have a solid legal claim against Alderney for contributing to the player fund deficit by taking the licence fee from a company that they know has insufficient funds to cover player deposits and theerfore are exacerbating the shortfall and even actively facilitating a criminal act - namely the further theft or misappropriation of player funds.

I have plans for The Alderney Gambling Commission and it will be fun taking them on as I have nothing better to do with my time and this should prove to be a fun project for me.Wink

Watch this space.........
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Grumbledook
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:31 pm
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GL Harry!
Bogus
At Won with No 28


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:40 pm
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Harry, I'm liking your work. If I ever meet you*, I'm buying the beers.

*Fox Club or any bar in the city Mon-Thurs night 18:00 - 2100 is good for me.
SuperJez
One Pair


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:08 pm
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Good luck Harry, they deserve it after that shambles.

Certainly what they fear most is being removed from the UK white list. They have to know the UK gov is watching, can't believe they bowed down to FTP's lawyers after claiming it would be a public hearing.
_doubleup
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:26 pm
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SuperJez wrote:
Good luck Harry, they deserve it after that shambles.

Certainly what they fear most is being removed from the UK white list. They have to know the UK gov is watching, can't believe they bowed down to FTP's lawyers after claiming it would be a public hearing.


The govt has already stated that it is going to end the whitelist. I think to remove a country requires a Statutory Instrument, so they aren't going to go to that bother when they are already legislating.
SuperJez
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:41 pm
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_doubleup wrote:

The govt has already stated that it is going to end the whitelist. I think to remove a country requires a Statutory Instrument, so they aren't going to go to that bother when they are already legislating.


Ahhh yeah I knew they were changing things, didnt realise it was set in stone that the whitelist was going, thanks for that clarification.


My favourite quote from AGC was the following

Executive Director of AGCC, André Wilsenach, said: “AGCC’s choice to hold a public hearing in to the future of Full Tilt Poker demonstrates our willingness to act transparently and we will welcome members of the public and the media. As ever at all times, our primary concern is the protection of the player.”
_doubleup
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:54 pm
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SuperJez wrote:
_doubleup wrote:

The govt has already stated that it is going to end the whitelist. I think to remove a country requires a Statutory Instrument, so they aren't going to go to that bother when they are already legislating.


Ahhh yeah I knew they were changing things, didnt realise it was set in stone that the whitelist was going, thanks for that clarification.


My favourite quote from AGC was the following

Executive Director of AGCC, André Wilsenach, said: “AGCC’s choice to hold a public hearing in to the future of Full Tilt Poker demonstrates our willingness to act transparently and we will welcome members of the public and the media. As ever at all times, our primary concern is the protection of the player.”


Yeah most regulators are pathetic and unfortunately it isn't going to change. Look at what goes on in Financial Services and they have vastly more regulation. Though some things like an ombudsman and a compensation scheme would be good for gaming.
BLAPO
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:55 am
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Re White List Status for Alderney GCC

I think it is unlikely that AGCC will end up being de-listed you only have to look at another of their press releases to seer that.

Media Release
14 July 2011
Following the announcement by the DCMS minister, John Penrose that the UK is to implement an extended licensing regime, this is to confirm that the new policy will not yet impact on remote gamblers licensed by the Alderney Gambling Control Commission (AGCC).

Mr Penrose has confirmed that remote gambling is to be regulated on a point of consumption basis, so that all operators selling into the British market, whether from here or abroad, will be required to hold a Gambling Commission licence to enable them to transact with British consumers and to advertise in Great Britain,

DCMS recently indicated that it is committed to move to licensing of remote gambling at the point of consumption and that primary legislation will be amended to require all operators taking wagers from UK residents to hold a licence or similar form of certification from the UK Gambling Commission. However, we have been told that until the primary legislation is amended – which is not likely until late 2012 at the earliest – the status quo will apply. The current „white list‟ will be maintained, though it will be closed to additional jurisdictions.

Further, DCMS and the UK Gambling Commission have indicated that they intend to implement a regime of jurisdictional equivalence, permitting Alderney licensees a „fast track‟ into UK licensing as and when that regime is implemented.

We have also been assured that the extent of regulatory activity undertaken by the UK Gambling Commission in respect of non-UK operators, including those located in the EEA, will depend on the degree to which those operators meet the standards, enforcement, experience and level of cooperation with the UK Gambling Commission.

It was agreed that any announcement by the DCMS will be followed by a process of consultation with the AGCC to clarify the implications of these decisions for Alderney licensees conducting business in the UK.

Executive Director of the AGCC, André Wilsenach, said: “The developments in the UK are good news for Alderney as we are committed to the highest standards of regulation and enforcement, and to the greatest level of cooperation with other regulators.”
BLAPO
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:00 am
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I think The AGCC need to answer whether they ensure that other sites that they license have to keep their players funds separate and what safeguards they implement to ensure they meet with their responsibilities as set out on their Players Page

PLAYER PROTECTION

Quote:
The Commission regulates the eGambling industry, to ensure that it is conducted honestly and fairly, remains free from criminal influence and that it does not cause harm to the public at large, individual persons and families.


The Commission’s functions in respect of the interests of the player include:

Assessing the background of the various entities involved in offering the gambling game, including the sources of their funding and the ultimate beneficiaries of the licensed entity;
Assessing the internal controls and operating procedures applied by the licensed operator to ensure that sufficient controls are in place to mitigate any risks associated with gambling;
Assessing the fairness, security and auditability of the gambling systems used in making gambling available;
Reviewing the marketing and advertising policies of licensees;
Investigating complaints by aggrieved players; and
The granting of approval and continuous reviewing of policies in respect of player protection and under-age gambling, including:

o Customer registration;
o Customer verification;
o Customer funds [e.g. deposits; recourse to funds; additions to funds];
o Limiting customer activity;
o Counselling for customers; and
o Customer complaints.
Barny
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:01 pm
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Koumari Boy wrote:
Wish I could Find The Time To Play More Poker:-(
Rolling Eyes
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conesplitter
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:31 pm
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BLAPO wrote:
I think The AGCC need to answer whether they ensure that other sites that they license have to keep their players funds separate and what safeguards they implement to ensure they meet with their responsibilities as set out on their Players Page

PLAYER PROTECTION

Quote:
The Commission regulates the eGambling industry, to ensure that it is conducted honestly and fairly, remains free from criminal influence and that it does not cause harm to the public at large, individual persons and families.


The Commission’s functions in respect of the interests of the player include:

Assessing the background of the various entities involved in offering the gambling game, including the sources of their funding and the ultimate beneficiaries of the licensed entity;
Assessing the internal controls and operating procedures applied by the licensed operator to ensure that sufficient controls are in place to mitigate any risks associated with gambling;
Assessing the fairness, security and auditability of the gambling systems used in making gambling available;
Reviewing the marketing and advertising policies of licensees;
Investigating complaints by aggrieved players; and
The granting of approval and continuous reviewing of policies in respect of player protection and under-age gambling, including:

o Customer registration;
o Customer verification;
o Customer funds [e.g. deposits; recourse to funds; additions to funds];
o Limiting customer activity;
o Counselling for customers; and
o Customer complaints.


I got in touch with my contact in Alderney in December of last year as, following a review of Tilt’s website, I noticed that they didn't have the player protection statement in their T&Cs which goes against Alderney's regulations. Every operator licensed in Alderney has to state the protection status of player funds as either 'Not Segregated,' 'Segregated' or 'Segregated and Protected.'

• “Not segregated” – this means that the operator has not segregated player funds from the company’s own funds. Player funds are therefore at risk in the event of a business failure.

• “Segregated” – this means that the player funds are held in one or more accounts separate from the business’s own funds and that the interest of the players in the account/s is noted in the title of the account. This may provide protection in the event of a business failure.

• “Segregated and protected” – this means that the player funds have been segregated and the Commission has been given reasonable assurance that the segregation is likely to be effective in protecting the player funds in the event of a business failure.

Statement also said..... “The player is able to see the relevant status on each casino licensed in Alderney.”

After fairly frequent chase ups on this via a number of channels I did receive some contact at the end of February 2011 confirming that they believed that this issue was part of a current review and update on that operator’s site. This was never confirmed directly by the Commission even thought they were copied into the email received and asked to clarify but then a week or so later Tilt had the statement up on their site to say the funds were not segregated.....

"Customer funds are not segregated from company funds, but it is the intention of Filco Ltd to meet its’ liabilities as they fall due"

It appears likely that this statement was added to the site as a result of my contact and the Commission’s subsequent investigations but surely such a breach of the regulations must have initiated a full review of the operator and its’ financial position at this stage which then begs the question how long did they know about the position before they finally pulled the plug following the DOJ indictments.

Makes you wonder who's actually in charge in Alderney, Tilt or the Commission?
Koumari Boy
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:20 pm
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[quote="Barny"] Play poker with me at Full Tilt Poker [quote]


And How do we do that??????
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irish
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:40 pm
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How are ftp paying the 600+ employees based in Ireland?
Welshman
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:39 pm
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irish wrote:
How are ftp paying the 600+ employees based in Ireland?


600 employees?????????????????????????????????? For what????????????????????

6 maybe but 600, where did this number come from?
conesplitter
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:32 am
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irish wrote:
How are ftp paying the 600+ employees based in Ireland?


All employed by Pocket Kings as far as I'm aware so different company to the FTP licence holder but how long they can keep paying people while the site is down who knows!
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