Joined: 01 Mar 2005 Posts: 1615 Location: @ The Profit Centre
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: Paddy Power WELCH on their bets
As many of you will know, I am normally the first to stand up for bookmakers when people come to this forum (typically with one post to their name) with dubious complaints of unfair treatment. However, I have just been shafted by Paddy Power and I am seething, so I thought I would share it with you.
I was on their website two nights ago looking for odds on yesterday's darts matches. I spotted one that took my fancy: Vincent van der Voort to beat Alan Tabern with a +2.5 handicap at 13/8. Although Tabern is throwing the best darts of his career and had a great Las Vegas Desert Classic, van der Voort is no mug and I figured he had a decent chance of covering the handicap. So I submitted my bet at 13/8 and they accepted it.
I then browsed some other sites and I noticed that another bookmaker was offering 13/8 on the opposite bet, i.e. Tabern to win with a -2.5 handicap. Although I was quite happy with my first bet, I figured I could hedge it by placing a bet with this bookmaker, knowing that if it lost it would be more than covered by my winnings from Paddy Power. So I placed the second bet and went to bed pretty happy with my investments.
Tabern won the match 10-8, so my first bet with Paddy Power won and my second bet with the other bookmaker lost. The hedging bet therefore cost me money but I wasn't too bothered as I'd still made a profit, right?
WRONG!
Paddy Power are now claiming that the advertised odds of 13/8 was a "blatant price error" and they have settled my bet at 4/9, which is what they say the correct odds should have been. According to their T&Cs they are allowed to do this.
As a result the winnings from this bet no longer cover the losses from my hedging bet and I find myself almost £300 out of pocket.
I have done absolutely nothing wrong here. I had no way of knowing the price was in error. Clearly I thought it was good value otherwise I wouldn't have placed the bet, but it certainly looked in the right ballpark. I don't think they can seriously argue it was so "blatant" an error that I must have known it would not be honoured. Therefore I think it was totally reasonable of me to rely on the bet being paid at 13/8 when I placed the hedging bet. I have acted reasonably and in good faith throughout and yet they make a mistake and I'm the one who has to foot the bill.
Obviously I phoned Paddy Power about this. They actually agreed with me that I had no way of knowing the price was wrong but all they could say was that it was an error covered by their T&Cs and that they were not responsible for bets I place with other bookmakers. I tried to explain to them that I did not want them to take responsibility for my other bets, just to take responsibility for settling their own bets at the agreed prices. They refused. I even (generously imo) offered them to split the difference between what they should have paid and what they actually paid. Again they refused. All I got out of them was an apology for the "inconvenience" but nothing for the money it has cost me.
Despite being a large bookmaker who I hoped would understand the issues involved here, they just don't seem to get it. Their error created a situation where I lost money through no fault of my own. If they hadn't made this error, I wouldn't have placed the first bet with them, I wouldn't have bothered placing the second cover bet, and I wouldn't have bet or lost a single penny.
If their price had been way out, something silly like 5/1, then it's a fair cop: I could have no legitimate expectation of it being paid at that price and it's entirely my lookout what other bets I make. I accept that bookies are entitled to protect themselves in situations like this. But 13/8 is well within the normal range of prices on a handicap line and I had no reason to think it wasn't genuine. It is the punter, not the bookie, who deserves protection here.
I am absolutely disgusted that such a large and trusted firm as Paddy Power won't put it's hands up and say "Our bad, we cost you money, we'll honour the bet at the agreed price," instead of behaving like some unscrupulous back-alley bookie and welching on the bet. It's not like I'm a high roller who has stung them for hundreds of thousands. I'm just a small-to-medium stakes punter, like most of you on here and no doubt like most of their customer base, and although a few hundred pounds won't make a dent in their finances, it makes a big dent in mine.
So, for anyone reading this who is thinking of placing a bet with Paddy Power, a word to the wise: if you see a price you like, it might not be the price you get.
Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 825 Location: Midlands, England
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:52 pm Post subject:
That gives them scope to alter any price for any event at their discretion....thats outrageous. IMO if they display any odds online and you place the bet and it is accepted, they should be duty bound to honour it as it is theirs, or someone within their organisations, fault, not the punter.
What a farce, that would allow them to alter odds at any stage regardless of the accepted bet? You've been screwed over Moo I hope you get something sorted _________________ Nil Satis Nisi Optimum
That's shocking, I doubt there's much you can do besides warning other people but it's a serious breach of trust. I for one won't be using Paddy power if they feel they can simply change their advertised odds in such a manner. _________________ I pressed down the mental accelerator, the old lemon throbbed fiercely, I got an idea.
What a farce, that would allow them to alter odds at any stage regardless of the accepted bet?
It's there to protect them, they offer a huge amount of odds and take a huge amount of bets, and just one mistake could be very costly. I'd accept that, to a point.
I do agree with Moo 100% though. If he'd piled on Manchester Utd at 14/1 to beat Derby and was kicking up a stink, then he wouldn't have a leg to stand on - he'd have know the odds were wrong and was trying to advantage (this is similar to when Argos priced up tellys for £1 by mistake). They cannot however say that offering 13/8 on a handicap match between 2 obscure darts players is an obvious mistake.
Moo, do you recall what the opponent's price was? If they were both 13/8 then it is a bit more obvious they've made a mistake.
I'd write to Racing Post letters page. Pretty much copy paste what you've typed here. I'd have thought they'd have just paid out, they cant have taken huge amounts (and they can afford to offer those special "if Beckham scores we'll refund all losing bets" type promotions).
Last edited by robhammer on Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 01 Mar 2005 Posts: 1615 Location: @ The Profit Centre
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject:
Thanks for your kind words of support guys!
itsmemark wrote:
Is there no way you can take this further Moo?
The supervisor I spoke to said I could pursue the matter with IBAS (Independent Betting Adjudicatory Service) which I fully intend to do, although I suspect I will just get the T&Cs thrown in my face again.
robhammer wrote:
Moo, do you recall what the opponent's price was?
The opponent's price was 4/9 so it was a completely ordinary looking market.
Joined: 11 May 2004 Posts: 2449 Location: Aberdeen
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject:
Moo wrote:
robhammer wrote:
Moo, do you recall what the opponent's price was?
The opponent's price was 4/9 so it was a completely ordinary looking market.
13/8 & 4/9 in a two horse race that is readily available at the reverse odds elsewhere is a palpbale error, especially when tied to exactly the same handicp in reverse on other sites, and is something that is in EVERY bookmakers T&Cs.
Surely you must have realised that one was clearly wrong, because in a two horse race, the odds difference is massive.
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 6033 Location: In Rhythm
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject:
Did you even read the OP fatshaft? He placed the bet without seeing odds on other sites, then noticed he could hedge it.
I've seen odds shifted significantly and automatically when slapping on a few hundred quid on a small market like this was, with the chosen bet becoming much shorter and the odds lengthening on the other side, and there can be significant differences in prices across bookmakers in small markets to start with, this isn't Man U vs Arsenal.
You are absurdly suggesting that you should check several bookmakers to ensure that the odds you are offered aren't 'too good' when they seem perfectly reasonable. That Moo hedged his bet is actually irrelevant here. Paddy Power offered a bet, there was no reason to suspect that the odds offered were in error, the market looked perfectly reasonable, and then they declined to pay out on the bet.
Joined: 11 May 2004 Posts: 2449 Location: Aberdeen
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject:
The Reverend wrote:
Did you even read the OP fatshaft? He placed the bet without seeing odds on other sites, then noticed he could hedge it.
I've seen odds shifted significantly and automatically when slapping on a few hundred quid on a small market like this was, with the chosen bet becoming much shorter and the odds lengthening on the other side, and there can be significant differences in prices across bookmakers in small markets to start with, this isn't Man U vs Arsenal.
You are absurdly suggesting that you should check several bookmakers to ensure that the odds you are offered aren't 'too good' when they seem perfectly reasonable. That Moo hedged his bet is actually irrelevant here. Paddy Power offered a bet, there was no reason to suspect that the odds offered were in error, the market looked perfectly reasonable, and then they declined to pay out on the bet.
No I read it fine Rev.
Moo is attempting to claim that 13/8 & 4/9 are very similar odds so it would not be possible to have a palpable error. The odds are nothing of the sort, there is a HUGE differnce in those odds in a two horse race.
Clearly he also knows a bit about darts, as he picked these two 'obscure' (to you and me) players out, and thought the odds were very favourable for the man he fancied. I imagine that his eyes popped out of his head when he saw them.
Just because darts, and these particular players, are an obscure market to you and me, doesn't mean that there are not true odds on a player which all bookies will have a rough idea of, as will those betting.
He has attempted to profit from what must have looked to someone who knows his darts as a mistake, and has been found out because of it, now he wants his cake, and eat it.
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