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Commie Boy
Straight


Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 495

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:47 am
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DY, shall I save you a place at the front?

Smile

CB
The Hat
One Pair


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:21 am
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Which war are you protesting against? Or is it war in general?

--Previous Message--

: DY, shall I save you a place at the front?
:
: Smile
:
: CB
Commie Boy
Straight


Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 495

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:34 am
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The one that's killed more U.S serviceman since G.W.Bush did his Top Gun impression.

Oh hang..sorry my mistake..the war's over ....Well, so George told me anyway

CB

--Previous Message--

: Which war are you protesting against? Or is it war in general?
:
: --Previous Message--
:
: : DY, shall I save you a place at the front?
: :
: : Smile
: :
: : CB
ironside
Full House


Joined: 14 Sep 2003
Posts: 1245

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 11:14 am
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you go join your anti war protest and meanwhile we squaddies will continue to let the idiots wanting to blow you up into the country


--Previous Message--

: The one that's killed more U.S serviceman since G.W.Bush did his Top Gun
: impression.
:
: Oh hang..sorry my mistake..the war's over ....Well, so George told me anyway
:
: CB
:
: --Previous Message--
:
: : Which war are you protesting against? Or is it war in general?
: :
: : --Previous Message--
: :
: : : DY, shall I save you a place at the front?
: : :
: : : Smile
: : :
: : : CB
Commie Boy
Straight


Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 495

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 11:18 am
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Sh *te, someone's trying to blow me up !! Thanks for the warning..

When I leave the Grosvenor in Southampton tonight, can someone start my car for me..any volunteers!! I'm really paranoid now !!

CB
(very scared !)


--Previous Message--

:
: you go join your anti war protest and meanwhile we squaddies will continue to
: let the idiots wanting to blow you up into the country
:
:
: --Previous Message--
:
: : The one that's killed more U.S serviceman since G.W.Bush did his Top Gun
: : impression.
: :
: : Oh hang..sorry my mistake..the war's over ....Well, so George told me
: anyway
: :
: : CB
: :
: : --Previous Message--
: :
: : : Which war are you protesting against? Or is it war in general?
: : :
: : : --Previous Message--
: : :
: : : : DY, shall I save you a place at the front?
: : : :
: : : : Smile
: : : :
: : : : CB
Sciolist
Flush


Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 643

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 11:25 am
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I'd be quite happy if it were just the British in this war (not that we have 120k soldiers), as at least we can resist the temptation to shoot our own policemen/journalists/allies/fellow soldiers. At least we might make a proper fist of things, the Americans just seem completely useless.

--Previous Message--

:
: you go join your anti war protest and meanwhile we squaddies will continue to
: let the idiots wanting to blow you up into the country
:
:
: --Previous Message--
:
: : The one that's killed more U.S serviceman since G.W.Bush did his Top Gun
: : impression.
: :
: : Oh hang..sorry my mistake..the war's over ....Well, so George told me
: anyway
: :
: : CB
: :
: : --Previous Message--
: :
: : : Which war are you protesting against? Or is it war in general?
: : :
: : : --Previous Message--
: : :
: : : : DY, shall I save you a place at the front?
: : : :
: : : : Smile
: : : :
: : : : CB
David Young
Flush


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 684

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 11:28 am
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It's such a shame that no survey of Iraqi people has ever shown a majority wanting the coalition forces to leave.

Channel4/YouGov poll results

The above shows only a small minority wanting the US.UK forces out immediately.

AND:

http://www.taemag.com/issues/articleI...rticle_detail.asp

This more recent survey showed again showed no desire among Iraqis for a rapid exit.

BOTH polls show the people of the country optimistic about the long term future of the country.

The real reason for the US going to war wasn't oil, nor any immediate threat from WMD (though in the long term it was a danger). The hidden agenda was to force through an Arab Enlightenment to drag the whole region out of the middle ages. The US reasons (correctly) that the West can't wait another five centuries for it to happen organically.

Iraq now has 150 free newspapers, a satellite television channel (dishes were banned under Hussein) and no political prisoners.

Its new found freedom has led to the entrepreneurs of Syria leaving the country to do business in Iraq. As a result of this, the Syrian leader Assad has declared an end to one-party state rule. He has to, or there will be no business class left!

Change that would have taken decades otherwise has occured in a few months!

You seem to have no sense of perspective at all. You see the sad deaths of the men who lost their lives to bring this about as an excuse to attack Bush. I truly pity you for your small-mindedness.

DY

P.S. if you read nothing else from the links I supply above, get this:

"Less than 30 percent of our sample of Iraqis knew or heard of anyone killed in the spring fighting. Meanwhile, fully half knew some family member, neighbor or friend who had been killed by Iraqi security forces during the years Saddam held power."
_________________
"Where you and Dominic differ from me, David, is that I [b:1234567890][u:1234567890]do[/u:1234567890][/b:1234567890] believe in the Nanny State."

[i:1234567890]Victoria Coren explains her opposition to the liberalisation of super-casinos, while smoking.[/i:1234567890]
Commie Boy
Straight


Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 495

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 11:42 am
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Ok..Daivd..you've got me....2 points.

1. "The hidden agenda" !! So there was one, we just all got the specifics wrong !! Interesting take.

2. "I truly pity you for your small-mindedness" Thanks !! David, that's the worst line ever to use in an argument. Grow up. I never offered any argument or any point about this. I simply told people about a war march. yet again without meeting me, talking to me, or asking my opinion on anything specific, you pass a ridiculous judgement.

I put the "DY" joke in there so as not to start a political debate. I'm never going to change your mind David, and gave up trying ages ago. So why do you persist to attack me with childish, remarks. Faux pity for small mindedness....very good...!

Unlike you, I am not attempting to change anyone's opinion on this site, or even attempting to put my side across. Last time I posted on this site letting people know about a protest, I believe quite a few people went, including the Mob.

Try SHARING information David, instead of preaching to all of us of inferior intelligence and "small mindedness"

CB

--Previous Message--

: It's such a shame that no survey of Iraqi people has ever shown a majority
: wanting the coalition forces to leave.
:
: Channel4/YouGov poll results
:
: The above shows only a small minority wanting the US.UK forces out
: immediately.
:
: AND:
:
: http://www.taemag.com/issues/articleI...rticle_detail.asp
:
: This more recent survey showed again showed no desire among Iraqis for a rapid
: exit.
:
: BOTH polls show the people of the country optimistic about the long term
: future of the country.
:
: The real reason for the US going to war wasn't oil, nor any immediate threat
: from WMD (though in the long term it was a danger). The hidden agenda was to
: force through an Arab Enlightenment to drag the whole region out of the middle
: ages. The US reasons (correctly) that the West can't wait another five centuries
: for it to happen organically.
:
: Iraq now has 150 free newspapers, a satellite television channel (dishes were
: banned under Hussein) and no political prisoners.
:
: Its new found freedom has led to the entrepreneurs of Syria leaving the
: country to do business in Iraq. As a result of this, the Syrian leader Assad has
: declared an end to one-party state rule. He has to, or there will be no business
: class left!
:
: Change that would have taken decades otherwise has occured in a few months!
:
: You seem to have no sense of perspective at all. You see the sad deaths of the
: men who lost their lives to bring this about as an excuse to attack Bush. I
: truly pity you for your small-mindedness.
:
: DY
:
: P.S. if you read nothing else from the links I supply above, get this:
:
: "Less than 30 percent of our sample of Iraqis knew or heard of anyone killed
: in the spring fighting. Meanwhile, fully half knew some family member, neighbor
: or friend who had been killed by Iraqi security forces during the years Saddam
: held power."
Fwing
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 12:00 pm
Reply with quote
"The hidden agenda was to force through an Arab Enlightenment to drag the whole region out of the middle ages"

And that's ok with you seeing as we were repeatedly told of the "clear and present" threat to western lives and civilization the Iraw regime presented?

Just wanting to "pop over and sort out the arabs" seems a mighty hubristic ambition too. Hasn't this been tried several times to no avail in the last few centuries by well-meaning global powers?

Bringing about the changes you seem to be talking about here goes to the very core of muslim culture. It's so fundamental it's almost down to the level psycholinguistics. I don't see any way to speed this process up without a lot of life being lost as you're dealing with beliefs. And we know how hard people will fight over those.


--Previous Message--

: It's such a shame that no survey of Iraqi people has ever shown a majority
: wanting the coalition forces to leave.
:
: Channel4/YouGov poll results
:
: The above shows only a small minority wanting the US.UK forces out
: immediately.
:
: AND:
:
: http://www.taemag.com/issues/articleI...rticle_detail.asp
:
: This more recent survey showed again showed no desire among Iraqis for a rapid
: exit.
:
: BOTH polls show the people of the country optimistic about the long term
: future of the country.
:
: The real reason for the US going to war wasn't oil, nor any immediate threat
: from WMD (though in the long term it was a danger). The hidden agenda was to
: force through an Arab Enlightenment to drag the whole region out of the middle
: ages. The US reasons (correctly) that the West can't wait another five centuries
: for it to happen organically.
:
: Iraq now has 150 free newspapers, a satellite television channel (dishes were
: banned under Hussein) and no political prisoners.
:
: Its new found freedom has led to the entrepreneurs of Syria leaving the
: country to do business in Iraq. As a result of this, the Syrian leader Assad has
: declared an end to one-party state rule. He has to, or there will be no business
: class left!
:
: Change that would have taken decades otherwise has occured in a few months!
:
: You seem to have no sense of perspective at all. You see the sad deaths of the
: men who lost their lives to bring this about as an excuse to attack Bush. I
: truly pity you for your small-mindedness.
:
: DY
:
: P.S. if you read nothing else from the links I supply above, get this:
:
: "Less than 30 percent of our sample of Iraqis knew or heard of anyone killed
: in the spring fighting. Meanwhile, fully half knew some family member, neighbor
: or friend who had been killed by Iraqi security forces during the years Saddam
: held power."
David Young
Flush


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 684

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 12:13 pm
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
I took 'since G.W.Bush did his Top Gun impression' to be small-minded.

I thought I WAS sharing information. I did supply you with two lots of survey results. They report the opinions of the people you think you want to help.

Yes, there was a hidden agenda. Even the anti-war Thruthout site notes this.

Click here for the piece in question.

Sample:

The hidden plan, the magazine says, is to install an elected democracy in Iraq, then spread this transition — by military force, if necessary — to all neighboring Arab countries. But the strategy could go haywire, it says, because enraged Muslims in those nations might elect fanatical regimes.

Once you see the survey reports I supplied, especially the second one, which found that 43 per cent of those surveyed had not attended Friday prayers EVEN ONCE in the previous month, you realise that there is little danger of 'enraged Muslims electing fanatical regimes', so it's a valid strategy.

Going on a march isn't the same as presenting an argument. I give you fact after fact after fact and it is you who comes back with personal abuse.

The world is becoming a better place! Smile. Be happy.

DY
_________________
"Where you and Dominic differ from me, David, is that I [b:1234567890][u:1234567890]do[/u:1234567890][/b:1234567890] believe in the Nanny State."

[i:1234567890]Victoria Coren explains her opposition to the liberalisation of super-casinos, while smoking.[/i:1234567890]
Prince Charles
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 12:16 pm
Reply with quote
David

I think you put your points across very well.

It's people like Commie Boy that want us Royals out too!

You only have to go to Hyde Park and see the make up of these people that are protesting - It's more like a Hippy & Tramp convention. - Maybe these people should get a job instead of hanging out in Parks, getting Tattoos and having various parts of their body & Face pierced.

Don't get me wrong, some are genuinely misguided, the rest are just a scourge on Society.

HRH

--Previous Message--

: Ok..Daivd..you've got me....2 points.
:
: 1. "The hidden agenda" !! So there was one, we just all got the specifics
: wrong !! Interesting take.
:
: 2. "I truly pity you for your small-mindedness" Thanks !! David, that's the
: worst line ever to use in an argument. Grow up. I never offered any argument or
: any point about this. I simply told people about a war march. yet again without
: meeting me, talking to me, or asking my opinion on anything specific, you pass a
: ridiculous judgement.
:
: I put the "DY" joke in there so as not to start a political debate. I'm never
: going to change your mind David, and gave up trying ages ago. So why do you
: persist to attack me with childish, remarks. Faux pity for small
: mindedness....very good...!
:
: Unlike you, I am not attempting to change anyone's opinion on this site, or
: even attempting to put my side across. Last time I posted on this site letting
: people know about a protest, I believe quite a few people went, including the
: Mob.
:
: Try SHARING information David, instead of preaching to all of us of inferior
: intelligence and "small mindedness"
:
: CB
:
: --Previous Message--
:
: : It's such a shame that no survey of Iraqi people has ever shown a majority
: : wanting the coalition forces to leave.
: :
: : Channel4/YouGov poll results
: :
: : The above shows only a small minority wanting the US.UK forces out
: : immediately.
: :
: : AND:
: :
: : http://www.taemag.com/issues/articleI...rticle_detail.asp
: :
: : This more recent survey showed again showed no desire among Iraqis for a
: rapid
: : exit.
: :
: : BOTH polls show the people of the country optimistic about the long term
: : future of the country.
: :
: : The real reason for the US going to war wasn't oil, nor any immediate
: threat
: : from WMD (though in the long term it was a danger). The hidden agenda was
: to
: : force through an Arab Enlightenment to drag the whole region out of the
: middle
: : ages. The US reasons (correctly) that the West can't wait another five
: centuries
: : for it to happen organically.
: :
: : Iraq now has 150 free newspapers, a satellite television channel (dishes
: were
: : banned under Hussein) and no political prisoners.
: :
: : Its new found freedom has led to the entrepreneurs of Syria leaving the
: : country to do business in Iraq. As a result of this, the Syrian leader Assad
: has
: : declared an end to one-party state rule. He has to, or there will be no
: business
: : class left!
: :
: : Change that would have taken decades otherwise has occured in a few months!
: :
: : You seem to have no sense of perspective at all. You see the sad deaths of
: the
: : men who lost their lives to bring this about as an excuse to attack Bush. I
: : truly pity you for your small-mindedness.
: :
: : DY
: :
: : P.S. if you read nothing else from the links I supply above, get this:
: :
: : "Less than 30 percent of our sample of Iraqis knew or heard of anyone
: killed
: : in the spring fighting. Meanwhile, fully half knew some family member,
: neighbor
: : or friend who had been killed by Iraqi security forces during the years
: Saddam
: : held power."
David Young
Flush


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 684

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 12:27 pm
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
What about the denazification of Germany?

Or the conversion of Japan after 1945 from a military-controlled, fascist, genocidal, emperor-worshiping society with a death cult approach to handling failure, to a peaceful country with reasonable democracy? The US stayed seven years to achieve that. I'm sure that some die-hard fanatics tried to stop it in the early days.

All that is different is that this time the US hasn't waited until millions have been killed.

As far as the muslim people are concerned, you overlook the fact that there are many in the region (as well as in the pakistani and arab communities of this country) who don't have strong religious beliefs and who would happily embrace a greater secularisation of their lives. Iran is ready to burst. People have had enough!

This is quite a timely discussion, as the World Bank and the IMF have finally stated that the middle-east has to change:

An example of what has to change.

The last paragraph scores a direct hit too.

DY
_________________
"Where you and Dominic differ from me, David, is that I [b:1234567890][u:1234567890]do[/u:1234567890][/b:1234567890] believe in the Nanny State."

[i:1234567890]Victoria Coren explains her opposition to the liberalisation of super-casinos, while smoking.[/i:1234567890]
David Young
Flush


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 684

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 12:40 pm
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I don't want to extend the argument in this direction, Mark. You have picked on what satirists call 'low-hanging fruit'. It's too easy.

People whose lives haven't worked out the way they wanted will always join protest movements, not always on the left. Do you think the people who throw bricks at asylum-seekers are stable, happy people either?

What troubles me is when someone as educated as CB feels so strongly opposed to something that is to the benefit of the entire world.

I would now like to talk about a related subject:

CHANGING YOUR MIND

Despite being a man of strong opinions (what other kind are worth having?) I have changed my mind about several things in my life. One example stands out:

My diet.

Many years ago, I remarked to a friend that I loved eating and always wanted more food. He said 'You won't fill yourself up with meat. You need to bulk up with rice'. This sounded like common sense at the time and I made a point to eat more rice and less meat. When I went to work for a Japanese bank, I started eating 'Bento' boxes - meals of rice and seafood. I thought that I was doing myself a power of good.

My weight ballooned and for a long time I put this down to the fact that I had started playing poker and that my lifestyle had taken a turn for the sedentary. It got worse and worse.

Then some time ago, I met a friend of a friend whom I hadn't seen for a few months. I barely recongnised him. He looked thin, having been enormous before and he appeared about ten years younger.

He explained that he had followed a diet called 'Protein Power'. It is similar to Atkins. He explained all kinds of things that were the total polar opposite of what general medical science was telling people.

I put off doing it for ages but two weeks ago decided that I had to make a change if for no other reason than that I had a huge wardrobe full of clothes I hadn't worn in seven years.

In two weeks I have lost 10 pounds without doing any running, swimming or weight-training. I have barely ever felt hungry. I need to lose another 10 at least.

It's ok to have beliefs, but when the facts get in the way, you should change them.

DY

If anyone is interested in this, write to sleeplessyoung@aol.com

Post Edited (23/9/2003, 1:43 pm)
_________________
"Where you and Dominic differ from me, David, is that I [b:1234567890][u:1234567890]do[/u:1234567890][/b:1234567890] believe in the Nanny State."

[i:1234567890]Victoria Coren explains her opposition to the liberalisation of super-casinos, while smoking.[/i:1234567890]
Ruairi
Two Pair


Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 12:43 pm
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
David,

If the war was really about spreading democracy, why would the US not start with Egypt, for example? It could put enormous pressure on Egypt to democratise, improve human rights etc, simply because it gives it so much aid (second after Israel, which as I'm sure you know gets more US aid than the whole of sub-Saharan Africa), and at almost no cost. Instead it launched a massively expensive, destructive war in Iraq, and still hasn't done anything about its ally. It doesn't make much sense. It also had a golden opportunity to press for democracy in Kuwait following the Gulf War - nothing happened. The same is true to varying extents of other Arab allies of the US. We're told it went to war in Afghanistan to liberate Afghani women from the oppression of the Taliban - why not its chum Saudi Arabia?

I wonder, did that poll ask how many new people whose health had been gravely affected by the 10 years of sanctions? Or by depleted uranium? Or by the combined effects of:

Support for Saddam up until the Gulf War (including during his most murderous period, the Anfal campaign against the Kurds);

Two wars featuring mass-bombing and the use of cluster bombs;

Allied, assistance in putting down a popular uprising which the allies fomented;

Ten years of sanctions that turned the country with the highest standard of living in the Middle East to the country with the lowest and resulted in hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths;
and,

The collapse of basic services following the war?

The most recent developments are hardly the full picture when it comes to how the people of Iraq have been treated by the US. Incidentally I support a continued troop presence in Iraq until conditions improve, though I'd prefer some sort of international one to a US led one.

Thanks again for the Edgware Road info.
R.

--Previous Message--

: I took 'since G.W.Bush did his Top Gun impression' to be small-minded.
:
: I thought I WAS sharing information. I did supply you with two lots of survey
: results. They report the opinions of the people you think you want to help.
:
: Yes, there was a hidden agenda. Even the anti-war Thruthout site notes this.
:
: Click here for the piece in question.
:
: Sample:
:
: The hidden plan, the magazine says, is to install an elected democracy in
: Iraq, then spread this transition — by military force, if necessary — to all
: neighboring Arab countries. But the strategy could go haywire, it says, because
: enraged Muslims in those nations might elect fanatical regimes.
:
: Once you see the survey reports I supplied, especially the second one, which
: found that 43 per cent of those surveyed had not attended Friday prayers EVEN
: ONCE in the previous month, you realise that there is little danger of 'enraged
: Muslims electing fanatical regimes', so it's a valid strategy.
:
: Going on a march isn't the same as presenting an argument. I give you fact
: after fact after fact and it is you who comes back with personal abuse.
:
: The world is becoming a better place! Smile. Be happy.
:
: DY
redsimon
Flush


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 724

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 1:11 pm
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
I'm waiting for the "eat pies" diet to take off.. Smile

:
: In two weeks I have lost 10 pounds without doing any running, swimming or
: weight-training. I have barely ever felt hungry. I need to lose another 10 at
: least.
:
:


_________________
[color=red:1234567890]"I've a straight! Look 7 8 9 T...hmmm, damn"

2004 WSOP PLO winner Ted Lawson shows his board reading skills[/color:1234567890]

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