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stowjon
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:44 pm
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just watched last nights coverage of EPT S10 funal table, 4handed they discuss a deal which is then taken over by Tom Middleton who sorts out the numbers in his favour the other 3 agree to the numbers and they all shake hands, Tom Middleton then taljs to his rail (jake cody, ian fraser) who tell him to no deal. Middleton then retturns to the table and says no deal!!! WTF is that all about?

My opinion - scummy thing to do, even if the 2 on the rail own a % Middleton should have tge final say, which in.my mind he did when he shook hands on the money HE offered!
Chris_Austin
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:58 pm
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Just giving it a watch now...

Edit: Watching the pokertube live feed btw, then i'll watch the channel 4 coverage. Doesn't seem too bad at the moment...

Edit 2: I was going to post the parts of the deal that I could work out but it seems that Tom Middleton had backers who had a high percentage of him but the coverage didn't go into much detail of that, obviously, so it's not worth analysing too far.

What was or should be 4 people doing a deal, became about 10 people, with a second deal being worked out in the Middleton camp before he was able to say deal or no deal to the EPT deal. Originally Tom wanted to do a deal and managed to negotiate more for his share of the chips (that I could work out) arguing that he was a better player (not sure if the other guys gave a shit about that). They eventually agreed but he took a minute to check it with his backers. That turned into another 10-15 minutes and ended with a no.

I was aware of this sort of stuff happening but I don't have any firsthand experience of it (i've made deals but not been staked before). When i'm offered a deal, i'm always wary of not getting a fair deal and i'm quite happy to say no to one. If I was playing against someone who was being backed by someone and couldn't say yes to a deal without consulting them, I wouldn't mind, it makes no difference to me as I can always say no. It was the time it took that I saw issue with. What should be 4 guys playing the end of a poker tournament turned into a big negotiation that had nothing to do with the other 3 guys, a lot of give from the other 3 guys during an unscheduled break and I think that was unfair to the other players. If the time was fixed then ok but it dragged on.

It was also harsh for the guy who shook hands, then hugged his mate and thought he was looking at 580K payday plus the chance of an extra 30, 60 or 110 but now has to play on for a 328K payday and play on for an extra 110, 300 or 739. I think that was Jon's main point?

Should consulted his rail/backers before all the negotiations began and decided what their limit is.


Last edited by Chris_Austin on Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:51 pm; edited 3 times in total
Rigsby
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:16 pm
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don't you just love greed
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Marcus6
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:44 pm
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stowjon wrote:
just watched last nights coverage of EPT S10 funal table, 4handed they discuss a deal which is then taken over by Tom Middleton who sorts out the numbers in his favour the other 3 agree to the numbers and they all shake hands, Tom Middleton then taljs to his rail (jake cody, ian fraser) who tell him to no deal. Middleton then retturns to the table and says no deal!!! WTF is that all about?

My opinion - scummy thing to do, even if the 2 on the rail own a % Middleton should have tge final say, which in.my mind he did when he shook hands on the money HE offered!






It was more to do with the guys that have a % of him than anything! think he did the right thing in asking his backers!

lets face it! its alot of money they are playing for.
stowjon
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:41 pm
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Marcus6 wrote:
stowjon wrote:
just watched last nights coverage of EPT S10 funal table, 4handed they discuss a deal which is then taken over by Tom Middleton who sorts out the numbers in his favour the other 3 agree to the numbers and they all shake hands, Tom Middleton then taljs to his rail (jake cody, ian fraser) who tell him to no deal. Middleton then retturns to the table and says no deal!!! WTF is that all about?

My opinion - scummy thing to do, even if the 2 on the rail own a % Middleton should have tge final say, which in.my mind he did when he shook hands on the money HE offered!






It was more to do with the guys that have a % of him than anything! think he did the right thing in asking his backers!

lets face it! its alot of money they are playing for.


thats bollox Marcus, hus backers take a punt on him, hes a big boy HE worked out the figures HE agreed the deal with a hand shake then backed out because his backers said so! if that the case he should have asked his backers before agreeing the deal.
Do you think he would have asked his backers if they were worse players than him? I dont think so.

The guys a lowlife imho and so are the other two for their part in the whole sorry event!

just my opinion.
Alex B
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:05 pm
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I feel like this violates "1 player to a hand", since deal making is a poker tournament skill, but I'm not sure how it could be nailed down and made enforceable.
Chris_Austin
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:11 pm
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Did we ever find out what happened to the bubbleboy-no-show Nuno Da Camara?
Matt101
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:18 pm
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Tom should definitely have gone to his backers before shaking hands but I'm sure he realised that. Can hardly blame him for taking a few minutes with so much money at stake.
Marcus6
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:14 pm
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stowjon wrote:
Marcus6 wrote:
stowjon wrote:
just watched last nights coverage of EPT S10 funal table, 4handed they discuss a deal which is then taken over by Tom Middleton who sorts out the numbers in his favour the other 3 agree to the numbers and they all shake hands, Tom Middleton then taljs to his rail (jake cody, ian fraser) who tell him to no deal. Middleton then retturns to the table and says no deal!!! WTF is that all about?

My opinion - scummy thing to do, even if the 2 on the rail own a % Middleton should have tge final say, which in.my mind he did when he shook hands on the money HE offered!






It was more to do with the guys that have a % of him than anything! think he did the right thing in asking his backers!

lets face it! its alot of money they are playing for.


thats bollox Marcus, hus backers take a punt on him, hes a big boy HE worked out the figures HE agreed the deal with a hand shake then backed out because his backers said so! if that the case he should have asked his backers before agreeing the deal.
Do you think he would have asked his backers if they were worse players than him? I dont think so.

The guys a lowlife imho and so are the other two for their part in the whole sorry event!

just my opinion.


5K buyin! yea it maybe a punt! (for the backers!) but at the end of the day! he was happy to do the deal and as i recall he did not shake hands with anyone he just said ok but give me a min and with that he went over to his backers to tell them what was going on, and thats when they said NO!

IMO! he did not do much wrong!



not sure what you are getting upset over jon! Rolling Eyes
stowjon
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:32 pm
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Marcus6 wrote:
stowjon wrote:
Marcus6 wrote:
stowjon wrote:
just watched last nights coverage of EPT S10 funal table, 4handed they discuss a deal which is then taken over by Tom Middleton who sorts out the numbers in his favour the other 3 agree to the numbers and they all shake hands, Tom Middleton then taljs to his rail (jake cody, ian fraser) who tell him to no deal. Middleton then retturns to the table and says no deal!!! WTF is that all about?

My opinion - scummy thing to do, even if the 2 on the rail own a % Middleton should have tge final say, which in.my mind he did when he shook hands on the money HE offered!






It was more to do with the guys that have a % of him than anything! think he did the right thing in asking his backers!

lets face it! its alot of money they are playing for.


thats bollox Marcus, hus backers take a punt on him, hes a big boy HE worked out the figures HE agreed the deal with a hand shake then backed out because his backers said so! if that the case he should have asked his backers before agreeing the deal.
Do you think he would have asked his backers if they were worse players than him? I dont think so.

The guys a lowlife imho and so are the other two for their part in the whole sorry event!

just my opinion.


5K buyin! yea it maybe a punt! (for the backers!) but at the end of the day! he was happy to do the deal and as i recall he did not shake hands with anyone he just said ok but give me a min and with that he went over to his backers to tell them what was going on, and thats when they said NO!

IMO! he did not do much wrong!



not sure what you are getting upset over jon! Rolling Eyes


He definately shook hands with all 3 players i watched him do it.
The size of the buying in negliable, im upset because i believe a hand shake is as good as giving your word, and Middleton went back on this. I guess im just an honest guy, id have been cool with the situation had the figures been given to him and he said i just need to speak to my mates, but he didnt HE clearly came up with figures he though were fair, then went against it.
AlexB has hit the nail on the head, deal making is part of the game and should be done by the player in the tourney, if he has backers the backers should be confident enough in the guys ability to make a deal that he sees fit.

While we are on the subject of stakes, i also dont think its fair that a staked player tips the casino staff out of winnings and then charges the stakers for it! If i was staked 50% my backers would get a full 50% return if i chose to tip the casino it would come out of my 50%!
Marcus6
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:50 pm
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stowjon wrote:
Marcus6 wrote:
stowjon wrote:
Marcus6 wrote:
stowjon wrote:
just watched last nights coverage of EPT S10 funal table, 4handed they discuss a deal which is then taken over by Tom Middleton who sorts out the numbers in his favour the other 3 agree to the numbers and they all shake hands, Tom Middleton then taljs to his rail (jake cody, ian fraser) who tell him to no deal. Middleton then retturns to the table and says no deal!!! WTF is that all about?

My opinion - scummy thing to do, even if the 2 on the rail own a % Middleton should have tge final say, which in.my mind he did when he shook hands on the money HE offered!






It was more to do with the guys that have a % of him than anything! think he did the right thing in asking his backers!

lets face it! its alot of money they are playing for.


thats bollox Marcus, hus backers take a punt on him, hes a big boy HE worked out the figures HE agreed the deal with a hand shake then backed out because his backers said so! if that the case he should have asked his backers before agreeing the deal.
Do you think he would have asked his backers if they were worse players than him? I dont think so.

The guys a lowlife imho and so are the other two for their part in the whole sorry event!

just my opinion.


5K buyin! yea it maybe a punt! (for the backers!) but at the end of the day! he was happy to do the deal and as i recall he did not shake hands with anyone he just said ok but give me a min and with that he went over to his backers to tell them what was going on, and thats when they said NO!

IMO! he did not do much wrong!



not sure what you are getting upset over jon! Rolling Eyes


He definately shook hands with all 3 players i watched him do it.
The size of the buying in negliable, im upset because i believe a hand shake is as good as giving your word, and Middleton went back on this. I guess im just an honest guy, id have been cool with the situation had the figures been given to him and he said i just need to speak to my mates, but he didnt HE clearly came up with figures he though were fair, then went against it.
AlexB has hit the nail on the head, deal making is part of the game and should be done by the player in the tourney, if he has backers the backers should be confident enough in the guys ability to make a deal that he sees fit.

While we are on the subject of stakes, i also dont think its fair that a staked player tips the casino staff out of winnings and then charges the stakers for it! If i was staked 50% my backers would get a full 50% return if i chose to tip the casino it would come out of my 50%!


The video on Youtube, did not show anyone shaking hands! if he did then i'm with you on this!
stowjon
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:18 pm
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not watched the youtube one but on last nights ch4 coverage it clearly show him shaking on the deal
stowjon
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:25 pm
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Chris_Austin wrote:

It was also harsh for the guy who shook hands, then hugged his mate and thought he was looking at 580K payday plus the chance of an extra 30, 60 or 110 but now has to play on for a 328K payday and play on for an extra 110, 300 or 739. I think that was Jon's main point?

Should consulted his rail/backers before all the negotiations began and decided what their limit is.



This was exactly my point Chris i just felt so sorry for the amateur player here, he had been a total gent and a character throug every weeks episode and then just got bent over, lubed up, and royaly shafted by Tom Middleton and his backers.

If im honest i think it was the worst form of angling to put 3 players on tilt ive seen and the more i thin about it, the more i think it was a pre-meditated angle by Tom Middleton Ian Frazer and Jake Cody.
Jack Starr
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:12 pm
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[quote="stowjon"]
Chris_Austin wrote:

It was also harsh for the guy who shook hands, then hugged his mate and thought he was looking at 580K payday plus the chance of an extra 30, 60 or 110 but now has to play on for a 328K payday and play on for an extra 110, 300 or 739. I think that was Jon's main point?

Should consulted his rail/backers before all the negotiations began and decided what their limit is.



This was exactly my point Chris i just felt so sorry for the amateur player here, he had been a total gent and a character throug every weeks episode and then just got bent over, lubed up, and royaly shafted by Tom Middleton and his backers.

If im honest i think it was the worst form of angling to put 3 players on tilt ive seen and the more i thin about it, the more i think it was a pre-meditated angle by Tom Middleton Ian Frazer and Jake Cody.[/quote

Shit thing to do, poker is full of it now! Very Happy
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Matt101
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:27 pm
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stowjon wrote:


While we are on the subject of stakes, i also dont think its fair that a staked player tips the casino staff out of winnings and then charges the stakers for it! If i was staked 50% my backers would get a full 50% return if i chose to tip the casino it would come out of my 50%!


Come on mate, it's not uncommon for players to sell the majority of their action, or sometimes if they're in make-up not make a penny out of a score. Why should the dealers have to suffer? Furthermore, I think it's nobody's business but the player and his backers tbh Razz
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