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godisturbed
High Card


Joined: 04 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:57 pm
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Me and my friends did a 30 cash game last saturday

I knocked the best player out early so he rebuys for 30 but doesn't have the cash on him and says he is good for it

Ok fair enough we are all mates

So pretty soon me and him are heads up again and he is in danger of going out a 2nd time

After the river comes and ive hit my flush I show my friend next to me my hand in a 'look what ive got' type of way

This friend is out of the hand and doesnt share any info with the rest of the group

I win the hand, other guy is knocked out and leaves for a smoke. Me and the 2 remaining players do a deal because the game is going on longer than expected

Other guy comes back and says he is no longer putting in the 30 pound in that he owes because I showed my cards like that!

So Im out of 30 quid plus extra money caus I wouldnt have done a deal so early knowing this

What is your opinion? Is there a ruling for this? I dont see its fair he got to play for essentially free the 2nd time he 'bought' back in. Surely I should have just got a warning or a penalty?
Rigsby
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Joined: 21 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:01 pm
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Lesson to be learnt

No cough up Money at the time and you are out of the game

in my opinion he owes the kitty 30
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Mania1129
One Pair


Joined: 30 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:08 pm
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Obviously there's no 'ruling' because this isn't a poker issue.

Your friend said he would rebuy and didn't.... he owes 30
Steve50
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:09 pm
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Rigsby wrote:
Lesson to be learnt

No cough up Money at the time and you are out of the game

in my opinion he owes the kitty 30


This.

Also I would say that showing your hand is actually helping him by giving him possible info from the other player...never show, to anyone, during a hand! Razz

Casino's don't allow it (some) but this is a home game, you make your own rules.
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The Wycher
One Pair


Joined: 22 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:35 pm
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I assume you are using the word mate in the loosest of possible terms as no mate would stiff you for 30.

He should have complained at the time and not after the event.

This sort of thing happens a lot in the pub, in fact one of the first games I played at the current venue, a very drunk guy showed his hand to the person behind him after the flop when we were on the money bubble and judging by the other persons reaction I immediately mucked and he turned over the flopped nuts. Had he not shown his had he would quite possibly have had all my chips. Although to be fair he did get them later when we were heads up, I think it lasted one hand Embarassed

I never show my hand while still involved and also don't discuss it while the hand is still in play, now if only everyone else did the same Evil or Very Mad
godisturbed
High Card


Joined: 04 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:46 pm
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He is actually my best mate but with booze involved you know what can happen!

I think he did slightly object at the time but he definitely didn't state he would be failing to cough up the 30 quid owed

Thank you all for contributing replies I will send him this link tomorrow and hopefully recieve payment in due course!
neilcaterham
Quads


Joined: 07 May 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:52 pm
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Every tuesday night is "Boy's night" for me and my mates to unwind together. We have a tourney every week. 5 rebuy for 1st 6 levels, then addon.
Sometimes someone is short and don't have the money and they pay next week, if they haven't got it, they don't play again.
Sometimes a threat of violence will suffice if the bloke is dilly-dallying about.
If he flat out refuses to pay then i think a smack in the chops is worth about 30.
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Daniel
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Joined: 24 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:54 pm
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This is exactly the reason I hate playing poker without the money upfront.

People get into this whole, 'ah but remember the time I bought the drinks all night when you were skint', or 'I paid you into the club when we were pissed' type thing.

If you really are playing with very good close friends, I would consider smaller stakes tbh. An amount where people can buyin 2-3 times, with the sort of cash that nobody minds losing too much.

Bottom line, he borrowed the money though, and he lost it, so he owes you it.

As for the not showing someone at the table your cards ruling, I would expect your hand to be dead 100% of the time at a casino with no first warning. At a pub, I would expect your hand to be dead if your winning and most people don't like you, and totally acceptable if your a regular and popular all round guy! Very Happy

I have played lots of home games, showing hands to players not in the hand, has always been ok. The best players never bother to do it anyway tbh, too much risk of someone giving away info. If one of the best players in home games I have been involved with, showed someone their hand, I would actually put them on a bluff, hoping that it looks like they have the nuts. If a noob does it, its the nutz 99% of the time.

Anyway, as I said, showing hands that are still live, to people who have folded or are not playing, is usually quite acceptable. Whats usually fround upon, are people grabbing their cards from the muck to show another player their flopped straight or full house!

My opinion, your 'mate' owes you 30. If he is a really good friend, probably best to let it go though. Get some good rules agreed on before the next game though, and insist that money is paid upfront, its simply human nature for some people to borrow money they can't pay back, thinking they can't or wont lose. Don't put the temptation there in the first place.
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stowjon
Royal Flush


Joined: 26 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:54 pm
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smash his face in!!!! Simples
paddymick
Straight Flush


Joined: 08 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:01 pm
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Not worth it for 30. Move on. If you stay mates don't let him do it again, or lend him money.
The Reverend
In Rhythm


Joined: 27 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:20 pm
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paddymick wrote:
Not worth it for 30


I was thinking 30 is pretty cheap to find out someone isn't worth knowing... At best he has some serious financial problems and he's panicking over not being able to pay rent or something.

At my home game we've all known each other quite a while, and have all loaned or been lent fair amounts of money in past by each other, usually in a casino, but you can NEVER borrow from the pot in our games. If he wanted to rebuy he should have borrowed the money from another player then rebought. Chips in play must equal money in the bank.

Your hand certainly isn't dead, might get a warning in the casino if someone complains, but you see it all the time it makes no difference to the hand in question.
WotaWaster
One Pair


Joined: 03 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:04 pm
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Massive angle shoot and I would not class him as your best mate.

Seems the money involved means too much to him if he has to weasel out excuses to not pay it so I would lower stakes to keep it friendly with your mates or not invite him back if 30 quid doesn't mean much to the rest of you but he is out of his depth.
tonyhat
One Pair


Joined: 29 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:23 pm
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we have a 5 rebuy every tues, no money no play, only exception is they get cash at break from nearby cash machine.
as for showing cards we dont mind too much as long as there is no discussion about it.
example "call you have him covered" that will defo get a stowjohn reply ROFL
ReggieK
The Guvnor


Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Posts: 5759

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:47 pm
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Where I play on a Thursday if you show your hand to a mate you get a one round penalty.
bigc82
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Joined: 31 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:52 pm
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What kind of deal did you make in a 'cash' game?

Wouldn't be falling out with my best mates over 30 but if your a mate of mine your not the kind of person who wouldn't pay up.
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