Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: FA Cup 2011-2012
tjm8 wrote:
Tell me a club who haven't had fans act out of line at some point !!!
Maybe ur owners can buy ur team a new set of fans, as I know there has been issues.
We shouldn't derail the thread though, it belongs to chelsea now.
It wasn't my intention to derail the thread and completely agree that every club has their share of idiots (as I said in my original post) What happened at Wembley was widespread booing of the anthem and not the idiocy of a few. I didn't know why this would be the case and if it's because the Queen didn't visit Liverpool after Hillsborough then I am surprised and disappointed. It's obviously not the same as the booing of an opposition anthem in International games (which I think is 100% wrong too) and is completely in keeping with a team that has an enormous chip on it's collective shoulder.
Your bitterness about spending money is completely understandable given how much money has been wasted on such footballing giants as Henderson, Downing and Carroll. Perhaps a Carling Cup and 8th in the League is sufficient return for your outlay ?
Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 15028 Location: Final Table
Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: FA Cup 2011-2012
I have done some digging and found that the queen did not attend a memorial service soon after Hillsborough. I am not clear on why, for example did she choose not to go or was she advised not to go or whether her absence was just an afterthought.
Prince Charles visited Anfield soon after as well as visiting those injured in hospital. The Queen also visited the memorial at Anfield in 93
Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 10:51 pm Post subject: Re: FA Cup 2011-2012
Brodders, my jokey jibe was in response to Indy's post about shameful fans. I had already made my response previously about this incident after I spoke to a couple of mates who went who said they were singing YNWA thru the national anthem, but could tell there was other LFC booing.
Maybe the mixture of these sounds made the booing seem like there was a higher % of LFC fans booing then there was (that was certainly there view, but as I wasn't there I can't add to that, other then that over the TV the boos were clear to be heard).
I earlier commented that some LFC fans I have spoken too at games have talked about their dislike of the Royal Family and had anti-establishment views, but you could cite a number of issues in the past for reasons. I personally don't think the Queen not visiting after Hillsborough is that high on the list, but I might be wrong.
Chelsea fans took a lot of flak at the semi final for their disrespect during the minutes silence, but it would be wrong to label every Chelsea fan as shameful for the actions on that day.
As for bitterness over money, you couldn't be further from the truth, for decades money has bought success and so did Liverpool in the 70's and 80's, where we spent big money (given that era) on the top players. In this era it is impossible to win the PL / cups without spending big / paying massive wages for the top players etc
Indy, see comments above, I agree I think there is more to it.
Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 11:38 pm Post subject: Re: FA Cup 2011-2012
Don't really see what's appalling, if you're disaffected for whatever reason then they're free to voice it; their reasons are their own. As an England fan I'm more offended by England players not singing the national anthem.
Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 12:20 am Post subject: Re: FA Cup 2011-2012
tjm8 wrote:
sundance wrote:
The reason Liverpool fans boo the National Anthem? Because the Queen didn't pay a visit after Hillsborough. Short memories though, the FA played ball and changed their semi-final fixture date...
A lot more to it then that, there could be considered a general 'anti-establishment' feeling within the Liverpool area citing a number of root courses, plus there is certainly a lack of love for the Germans
Spoke today to a couple who went and they were in the group who were trying to sing YNWA during it, but said there was other sections booing the anthem.
Don't really see why the media should report it as a disgrace, because the booing of opposing national anthems has been common place in this country for decades and it would be hypocritical to suddenly be up in arms because the British anthem has been booed for a change. The media don't even report when the most disguisting of songs are been sung on a weekly basis.
Indy, you should get over it, on a day your club should be celebrating a fantastic performance at Newcastle, the last thing on your mind should be a 2 legged semi-final affair when your team didn't turn up at all and hardly caused the LFC defence at all.
If I wasn't an original member of the ABU brigade, I would want QPR to get a result next week, just to ruin your summer
Apologies if I got the reason wrong, its what a Liverpool fan (whom I respect) told me on a football forum, but I respect you as well, so like I say, sorry if information was incorrect
Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 15028 Location: Final Table
Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 7:33 am Post subject: Re: FA Cup 2011-2012
One for the Chelsea fans is that the Community shield this year won't be at Wembley due to the Olympics and instead will be at the 42k capacity Villa Park.
Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:53 am Post subject: Re: FA Cup 2011-2012
tjm8 wrote:
Brodders, my jokey jibe was in response to Indy's post about shameful fans. I had already made my response previously about this incident after I spoke to a couple of mates who went who said they were singing YNWA thru the national anthem, but could tell there was other LFC booing.
Maybe the mixture of these sounds made the booing seem like there was a higher % of LFC fans booing then there was (that was certainly there view, but as I wasn't there I can't add to that, other then that over the TV the boos were clear to be heard).
I earlier commented that some LFC fans I have spoken too at games have talked about their dislike of the Royal Family and had anti-establishment views, but you could cite a number of issues in the past for reasons. I personally don't think the Queen not visiting after Hillsborough is that high on the list, but I might be wrong.
Chelsea fans took a lot of flak at the semi final for their disrespect during the minutes silence, but it would be wrong to label every Chelsea fan as shameful for the actions on that day.
As for bitterness over money, you couldn't be further from the truth, for decades money has bought success and so did Liverpool in the 70's and 80's, where we spent big money (given that era) on the top players. In this era it is impossible to win the PL / cups without spending big / paying massive wages for the top players etc
Indy, see comments above, I agree I think there is more to it.
Hi mate. Apologies for taking your previous post the wrong way. I do think that the booing of our national anthem is a disgrace and reflects badly on a significant number of your fans (is singing YNWA over it any less disrespectful ?) but agree with everything else that you say above.
Joined: 02 Feb 2007 Posts: 3123 Location: with position on you
Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:49 am Post subject: Re: FA Cup 2011-2012
I didnt actually hear the booing of the anthem because I didn't tune in until 5.15pm but if that happened then it is an absolute disgrace.
The idiots who did that need an education in what a national anthem is and what it is created for and what it represents. It isn't just some piece of music written for one person. The fact that it mentions "Queen" in it is academic. It is a piece of music written to reflect an entire country and the patriotic feelings that people have towards their own country and its history.
Or anthem today is almost identical to the anthem we had before our Queen was even born and it will be almost identical to the one that we have after she is dead and we have a different monarch. Whether you love, hate or are indifferent to the the Royal family and whatever your thoughts about the Queen and Hillsborough.......you simply do not boo your own anthem. _________________ Poker columnist at www.poker.co.uk
Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:51 am Post subject: Re: FA Cup 2011-2012
sundance wrote:
You enjoy your day out mate?
Good seats?
My old man said the atmosphere was pretty good....until hearts were in mouths at 2-1!
I had a great seat (halfway line in the top of the bottom tier) but literally seperated from the Liverpool fans by a steward and 4 covered seats ! As you can imagine it wasn't the friendliest of atmospheres !
I obviously enjoyed the result but thought we were lacklustre, tired and vey much there for the taking. We got lucky that Liverpool's tactics for the first 65 minutes were so bad that they bailed us out. The atmosphere was very good generally (ignoring the pre-match stuff) - Liverpool fans know how to sing a song... even if it's just the one and we sang up.
Am hoping we now accept there's no way we get 4th and rest everyone for the next 2 weeks for the final.
Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: FA Cup 2011-2012
It's ok mate, I hadn't really meant to get involved in a deep discussion about it (because personally I didn't agree with it), just tried to put a bit of reasoning to why it might have happened.
One of the reasons why some choose to sing YNWA is, because it is seen by some, as their real 'Anthem' and it is always sung before the start. Again this is controversial and I understand why some are offended it by it, but we do live in a place of free speech and I think there are more important issues.
This mentality isn't new within a group of football fans, plenty of sets of fans use the 'We are ............. FC and we will do what we want', they all have their reasons and it is meant to make a point.
I think there is a North / South divide when it comes to the importance of the Royal Family and the majority of that will come from location (when you are in London you are closer to the perceived benefits). In the North, you get the odd visit and the flag wavers will come out, but then they are forgotten until the next wedding etc. Note I am not been deliberately callous, but the Royal Family is very rarely spoken from my experience in discussions outside of these events.
There is also an strong anti-establishment in some quarters dating back to the 60's, when Liverpool were still suffering from the World War 2 damage to the city (refered to it as the Liverpool slums) and watching cities like London being rebuilt first and flourising. The famous 'In your Liverpool slums' is still sung by most opposing clubs.
I am not from Liverpool, but in all of my time visiting the city and listening, you can still sense the genuine pain in some quarters and why some have take the decision to say 'weren't not English, we are scouse' - as you will no doubt see banners to that effect at games.
Liverpool also has a lot of Irish roots and if you remember the National Anthem for Cardiff - Liverpool Carling Cup Final wasn't played for the fear of the Welsh ruining it. Add on the Hillsborough justice campaign which has taken years and years of fighting to start making moves in the right direction and you start to understand why some are made to feel like second class citizens within this country.
A widespread condemnation of the events of Saturday is not the way forward, it would be better to start to build bridges (and I mean from both sides).
Back to the football game, I have changed my mind, it was miles over the line and I am going to be moaning about the ghost goal for years to come and claim it was a 2-2 draw
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