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Barny
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:11 pm
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I have just spoken to Ram who is not best pleased about the innacurate accounts of the dispute with Phil Ivey which has been doing the rounds and have now appeard on Daniel Negranau's blog.

Ram has asked us to reproduce this letter here and will be giving his own full version of events at a later date.

Daniel.

I have just read your blog in which you complain of your friend's treatment and the hands of a couple of hustlers. I understand that you have jumbled the letters in their names, although as a chronic dyslexic this makes absolutely no difference to me. As is your intention, the whole world of course knows exactly who you are talking about.

I feel that I know you fairly well, both through our meetings across the poker table and through your public persona. I often cite you as one of the people in poker I most admire and I know that your take on any issue connected with poker is always going to be worth hearing.

That is why I am particularly disappointed that you have made a public pronouncement on a private matter about which - as you readily accept - you do not have all the facts, and have only heard from one side.

I quote from your blog: 'You played for days and days, continued to raise the stake unprovoked, set the rules for the game...'

The first two words are spot on, but everything beyond that tells me that your information is not exactly from the horse's mouth, and I don't think we should be playing Chinese Whispers with people's reputations.

I do not know your buddy very well but he has always struck me in the past as a good guy. I do not doubt that he feels aggrieved, and I would not dream of making a public judgment about a dispute he is involved in; Particularly when I have never discussed it with him. Notwithstanding the pressure to find regular content for your blog, it is a shame that you do not accord my buddy the same courtesy.

Ram is a man of infinite patience and very few words. For the past few months he has maintained a dignified public silence whilst seeing his character attacked and misinformation spread. I know he does not feel under any obligation to respond to the flamers and gossips, and I don't suppose he will thank me for writing this, but I feel it's time I made one very simple observation.

Of all the people I have known both inside and outside poker, none is more fundamentally honest and thoroughly honorable than Ram Vaswani. No one who has spent any time with him on or off the poker table would ever seriously question that. This is not to imply otherwise about any other party, it is simply that I know this about Ram to the extent that I would stake my life on it.

Even if I did not know the facts of the case I would therefore be quite certain that he would have to have a very good reason, and certainly to be utterly convinced in his own mind, if he were to dispute a gambling debt.

I know that this matter is already in the public domain and that you are only repeating in good faith what you have been told. Perhaps by way of balance though, you might feel it would be appropriate to publish this letter.

All the very best.

Barny Boatman
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:20 pm
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Confused

Last edited by mp3 on Thu May 22, 2008 3:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
CarpeAnnum
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:24 pm
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martypalin wrote:
Well said, I assume Daniel got involved as it was his best friend Lindgren on the other side of the argument. Otherwise like everyone else he should not comment as you reitterate

It wasn't Lindgren it was Phil Ivey.
Nem
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:28 pm
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Daniel - Poker Journal
Hustled for the Very Last Time!
09 Apr 2007


For Easter dinner, Lori and I met with Cece, Hayden, Barbara, Jenn, Marco, Patrick, Maya, as well as Jennifer and Marco's two boys. We ended up at a beautiful restaurant where we could sit outside on a beautiful night.

Obviously, with the group at hand, poker was the main topic of conversation for most of the evening. Patrick told me about how unlucky he's been, I told him some horror stories as well, and finally, Cece told us about how her quads were no match versus a royal flush in a recent Bellagio tournament.

After dinner we all headed over to Jenn and Marco's place. Not only was it us humans, but we also had Jenn's dogs, Cece's dogs, and our dogs. In total, it was, Mushu, Marley, Brittany, Peter, Dexter, Guaglione, Stolie, Squirtolino, and oh, I can't forget Todd Brunson (who was also there with his lovely wife).

Here is where things go a little haywire. At dinner, Patrick and I talked a little bit about pool and I was certain that he was much better than me. No question about it. Nonetheless, we decided to gamble a bit on a pool match, but I negotiated a little spot for myself in 9-ball. We agreed to play a race to 4, but with me starting out with a 1-0 lead which seemed fair. Last time we did this I crushed him, so I figured I could beat him for a big number.

I won the first game but ended up losing the first set. We played another seven sets, playing for double or nothing each and every time. First I was down $10,000, then $30,000, then $100,000, and before I knew it I was stuck close to $1.8 million.

I never won one stinkin' match. Of course, losing that badly, I had no choice but to tell Patrick to buzz off, and that I wasn't paying him one cent. It's true, that the last time we played I beat him for $300,000 and he paid me the next day, but after this debacle I wasn't even willing to give him his $300,000 back since the match was clearly unfair.

He argued that if I didn't want to pay him, or thought he was hustling, that I should have quit playing a long time ago. Bleh, whatever man. I was just trying to get even. If I got even I wouldn't have said anything and just not played with him anymore. Since I lost the way I did, though, I had no plans of paying him anyway.

Patrick tried to make some other ridiculous points that I found laughable:

He said, "I didn't even make the match." That's true, I came up with what I thought was a fair match, but in the end, I realized that the match wasn't fair at all which I think justifies me not paying.

He then said, "Why did you keep kicking it up if you thought it wasn't fair?" That is so silly! I didn't realize that it was an unfair match until I lost every single time and played very poorly! I was kicking it up because, duh, that was the best way for me to get even!

He then said, "Did I put a gun to your head and force you to keep playing? How can you beat me for $300,000, then when I win, you don't want to pay me?" Duh Patrick, it's called covering your butt dude? Seriously, if I got even I just would have forgotten about the whole thing, but when you beat me for that kind of money I'm going to just have to come up with some excuse not to pay.

The whole thing got rather heated, so I told him we needed to just talk about this whole thing face to face, mano e mano. He just wouldn't see my side of the story, so I told him we'd just need to get an arbitrator to settle it. He had no idea what an arbitrator was, but after I explained it to him he said, "What is there to settle? You made a match with me and I agreed. You kicked it up repeatedly, kept playing over and over and lost. When you beat me for $300,000 I didn't hear you complain one bit? What is there to settle?'

***************************************************************

Ok, so that's not exactly how it all happened. Patrick and I actually played two sets at Jenn's house, he won the first and I won the second. We broke dead even.

Now, the above story, as outlandish and unbelievable as it may sound, actually happened to a very good friend of mine recently. Much of it has been talked about in various poker forums. My buddy, would represent Patrick in the above story. Mar Wasvani and Clark Badmin represent me in the above story.

Now, to be fair, I've only heard one side of the story, but it seems like the evidence is overwhelmingly compelling in favor of my friend. As Doyle Brunson put it, "-------, did you put a gun to their head and force them to keep playing?"

Of course not. What happened here is a couple of "hustlers" lost more than they felt comfortable with, continued to press, and press, and press, their bets hoping to get even. Then when they failed to get even, they cried fowl, claiming, "This wasn't a fair match." Are you freakin' serious?

You played for days, and days, and days, continued to raise the stake unprovoked, set the rules for the game, etc., then after losing, are trying to get out of paying? I seriously can't even comprehend this.

I lost a lot of money on the golf course last year. Most of the matches I had were not in my favor. Yet, knowing that I was "the sucker," never for a second did I consider not paying it off. Not for a second. I took my lumps like a man, paid the money I owed, and learned a lesson or two along the way.

My buddy still hasn't received a penny of his winnings. What's really just mind boggling and ridiculous, is that my buddy hasn't even been paid the money he lost to these guys! I'm not making this up! Not only is he out the money he won on the golf course, but he's also out the money he paid them when he lost!

So while this situation is extremely ugly, the situation between Patrick and I was rather tame. He took me to dinner, wined and dined me, gave me his coat when I was cold, and complemented me on my attire. He was a gentleman and extremely well behaved, which is good, because I'm not that kind of guy anyway Smile

As for my buddy versus Wasvani and Badmin, their situation remains unsettled. I'd love to hear their side of the story, but my goodness, I can't imagine what justification they could come up with for not paying the money they lost. I mean, at least paying the money they happily won! It really is the craziest gambling story I've heard in a long time. Its clearly a case of biting off more than you can chew, snagging a fish that comes back to bite you in the butt, and now trying to weasel your way out of a debt you know well and good that you owe.
MadYank
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:33 pm
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WOW!

Just read Dan's blog entry and your reply, Barney.

LOL. I doubt my reply would have been as civil.

Dan is publicly calling out Ram as a welcher and then admitting he has only one side of the story.

Perhaps we can finally call Dan what he is: A fking hyperinflated egomaniac who now thinks he is some sort of poker God who can sit in judgement of anthying or anyone who has ever a passing contact with poker.

Having read a brief description from Mark G., about "the golf match" on blondepoker, months ago, and also knowing Ram well enough, I'd be far more inclined to tell Dan to go **** himself royally with a giant shoe in his midget arse!
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ariston
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:46 pm
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I have already emailed Danny about this and he is one who will normally take things back but you know how he is and how outspoken he can be. I am sure when he has the full story and not just Iveys side of things he will put an apology in there. Lets not put any more fuel on the fire though and let them sort it out without all of us getting involved, there has already been so many threads on all the forums about this and many people have taken both sides. I will also send him the link to your response barny.
unicorn
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:50 pm
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CarpeAnnum wrote:
martypalin wrote:
Well said, I assume Daniel got involved as it was his best friend Lindgren on the other side of the argument. Otherwise like everyone else he should not comment as you reitterate

It wasn't Lindgren it was Phil Ivey.


I believe the handicap dispute was based on ivey maintaining that lindgren still gave him a certain amount of strokes.
MadYank
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:53 pm
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ariston wrote:
I have already emailed Danny about this and he is one who will normally take things back but you know how he is and how outspoken he can be. I am sure when he has the full story and not just Iveys side of things he will put an apology in there. Lets not put any more fuel on the fire though and let them sort it out without all of us getting involved, there has already been so many threads on all the forums about this and many people have taken both sides. I will also send him the link to your response barny.


Um, pardon, but, Dan just threw grenade at a fuel tanker here by making such an explicit blog post on his public website.

I wouldn't dare to make a ruling on the "betting dispute" but I do feel qualified to make a ruling on Dan making admitted onesided public denouncements.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:59 pm
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DN is currently defending his decision to write about this dispute in this thread on his forum:

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker...c=96153&st=20
Dr Charles Akinbyuyi
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:59 pm
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158 Guests

Hello 2+2
MattF
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:29 pm
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"Pay dat man hiz money"
Billbullets
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:33 pm
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He beatchze me Pay him
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:43 pm
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Does seem as though both parties are letting others take up the argument rather than dealing with themselves. As a result you end up with misinformation and a worse situation.
CarpeAnnum
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:46 pm
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Daniel posted:
Quote:
Even if Ivey lied, which is not the case at all, you could call him a scumbag, call him a hustler, call him whatever... but you'd still owe the money. Plain and simple.

Plain and simple? I don't see how you would still owe anything at all if he lied.
RobGibraltar
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:47 pm
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If Daniel had stuck to posting Phil's side of the story as quotes from Phil then that's fair enough.

Did Phil ask daniel to make a judgement on it?

Even someone's opinion can be damaging when the person is widely known and mostly well regarded.
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