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Steve50
Royal Flush


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:32 pm
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I will post up a hand here and there for analysis as it would be interesting to hear the thoughts of others, and to keep the analysis forum alive Very Happy

Will post it without initial thoughts on why make the play.

It's nearly 2 hours into the nightly 55k tournament, blinds are at 80/160 and just moved tables so no information on players.

Chip stacks are:
SB - 4625
BB - 4400
Seat 3 - 5335
4 - 6550
5 - 12240
6 - 4154
7 - 17870 KClubs JHearts
8 - 6475
9 - 4670

Seat 5 limps in, and it's folded to me with the KJ, so I raise to 720, it's folded back to seat 5 who calls.

Flop: A Hearts K Diamonds 7 Hearts

Seat 5 checks, I c/bet 1,150, and now seat 5 check raises me minimum to 2,300 Exclamation ...I call.

Turn: 9 Clubs

Now seat 5 bets again and makes it 3,500 into the 6,280 pot...so I raise all-in Mr. Green



Thoughts? Will post outcome tomorrow.
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stejens
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neilcaterham
Quads


Joined: 07 May 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:24 pm
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I think its either a fold or a 3 bet on the flop. If he 4 bets fold, if he calls and leads out on turn fold.

The stack that you and seat 5 have are big at them blind levels and I think its crazy to donk off all them chips and leave yourself short if he is holding Ax. If you won the pot good luck, but I would not have raised allin there
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Pizzicato
Straight Flush


Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 3266

PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:10 am
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I am assuming this is the $162 on Stars?

Your raise is a little large for my liking as I would make it much closer to 600 pre flop in a spot where I wanted to isolate the limper.

My Flop bet would be probably be approximately half pot or a shade under and I would fold to the c/r....

Absolutely no reason to take off in this spot against the one guy on the table who can hurt you.

Yes I know he can have a flush draw some of the time but he can have you crushed so hard a huge amount of the time I can't see this line being profitable without some good previous information which you do not have...
Gordiniho
One Pair


Joined: 23 Aug 2012
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:01 pm
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Pizzi is spot on here
'Absolutely no reason to take off in this spot against the one guy on the table who can hurt you. '

Your re raise is all in is awful (my peronsal opinion.) You are all out bluffing IMO as if you are called you are losing.. you have no info on the player and decide to ship him. STRANGE

Reading through the hand he could easily have Trip Aces lol

You have no info on player and he could easily be a player who limps with AK and flats a raise pre. I have seen it many times.

I presume your bluff got through as your posting the hand?
ReggieK
The Guvnor


Joined: 16 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:41 pm
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He have 77 I take it?
Bugger this, wouldn't even play bloody KJ in the first place
skarhattack14
High Card


Joined: 28 Nov 2013
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:56 pm
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Whats the buy in.
Gordiniho
One Pair


Joined: 23 Aug 2012
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:33 pm
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ReggieK wrote:
He have 77 I take it?
Bugger this, wouldn't even play bloody KJ in the first place


Yeah a flopped Set can be played the same way...Being Sneaky with AA or limp call pre with 77

That is my guess anyway.

3 Betting EP raises with KJoff surely cant be profitable.
jellyface
Failed


Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:59 pm
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Key thing for me is that you said you had no read on the players and you are up against 2nd biggest stack.
If you were him, would you min-raise the biggest stack on the table without a hand?

Honestly I have no idea what he has between air, a flush draw Ax or trips, but you are raising allin with no data to support the play. Even if you won the hand, I'm not sure it's +ve play.
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Steve50
Royal Flush


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 5127
Location: Lowestoft

PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:11 am
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Thanks for the replies.

This hand was actually taken from the book I'm reading by a very big MTT pro, I just decided to post it as if I had played it to see the responses, assuming it would be called bad play and unprofitable Laughing Mr. Green

But the reason I wanted to see others thoughts was that when I first read this, I also thought "how the hell can he play this like that" assuming long term it would indeed be unprofitable - So not sure how it makes the book!.

I usually say that one of my downfalls is that sometimes I can be 'too aggressive' when I have chips and bluff away my tournaments, yes they work sometimes but other times I am out, and this hand was a prime example.



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stejens
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Pizzicato
Straight Flush


Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 3266

PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:42 am
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Well done, you caught us all out and made us look/feel stupid...

You know some of us are posting because we are actually still mistakenly trying to help you and stupid stunts like these dont really inspire us with the desire to continue posting.

In honesty I don't think reading about hands like that is gonna do you any good whatsoever for a few reasons... Firstly, the $162 level on Stars is way beyond you both in terms of skill level and bankroll. While there is a place for moves like in this HH it is almost never ever gonna be in the sort of tournaments you play on a regular basis... Secondly, you are still struggle with what alot of people would consider the basics, trying to add complicated high level plays and theory to your game could easily be catastrophic as you dont really understand how/why people respond to you the way they do yet. Thirdly, you are not Rizen or whatever HS MTT pro's book you are reading at the time. Soooooo much can be achieved in poker (especially MTT's) by just understanding the basics and applying that in a consistent manner. Fourthly, you seem to love putting yourself in awkward spots... Try changing your outlook and just try to play without making mistakes, you dont have to min 5bet bluff to make money at this game and if you are seeing places to do this all the time then you are doing it wrong.

Fifthly... I am done posting in your HH threads.
Rigsby
Forum Challenge Champion


Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Posts: 1909

PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:44 am
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in a micro tourney a rag ace is calling here more often than not, maybe even calling in a 55 tourney even

lets face it if you have AA KK AK or a lower set you are not shoving this turn surely?
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jellyface
Failed


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:12 pm
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I don't feel stupid or misled by this coming from a book and not from your own experience.

I find the play flawed irrespective of who did it - it worked in that instance, but the analysis doesn't really gel into advice on how to play that hand in that position when you have no information on the players you are playing, and with those chip stacks.

It's just a hand history, and the analysis is a bit meh: he thinks the guy could have a set, or a big draw, or nothing, and doesn't think he has a big Ace. Not massively convincing IMO
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smoothcallz
Straight


Joined: 05 May 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:27 pm
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pizz.. I dont think he was intentionally trying to have anyones pants down.. altho I can see where your coming from.

but it would be a crying shame here for you too stop posting in these hand histories.. now im not kissing your arse here... but your one of the very few ppl who actually post in these hand histories who is a respected and proven winning player.
so too lose your views on some of the retarded threads posted (including my own) would be a massive loss to an already slow moving part of the thmf
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Rigsby
Forum Challenge Champion


Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Posts: 1909

PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:07 pm
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jellyface wrote:
I don't feel stupid or misled by this coming from a book and not from your own experience.

I find the play flawed irrespective of who did it - it worked in that instance, but the analysis doesn't really gel into advice on how to play that hand in that position when you have no information on the players you are playing, and with those chip stacks.

It's just a hand history, and the analysis is a bit meh: he thinks the guy could have a set, or a big draw, or nothing, and doesn't think he has a big Ace. Not massively convincing IMO


Agree
if he got called and losty his chips the hand would not of made the book
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Gordiniho
One Pair


Joined: 23 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:12 pm
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Rigsby wrote:
jellyface wrote:
I don't feel stupid or misled by this coming from a book and not from your own experience.

I find the play flawed irrespective of who did it - it worked in that instance, but the analysis doesn't really gel into advice on how to play that hand in that position when you have no information on the players you are playing, and with those chip stacks.

It's just a hand history, and the analysis is a bit meh: he thinks the guy could have a set, or a big draw, or nothing, and doesn't think he has a big Ace. Not massively convincing IMO


Agree
if he got called and losty his chips the hand would not of made the book


+1

I still dont like the play..if it was against a Russian he would have lost all his chips.
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