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Hullcity
Full House


Joined: 26 Jan 2011
Posts: 879
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:56 pm
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There is in interesting story that Doyle Brunson tells about a tough high stakes game of NLH where a rather nitty player decides to play (he only has a few buy ins and is on a limited bankroll), the nit raises utg and Doyle calls from the BB with A10s, and flops an ace high flush, he decides to donk bet into the nit and the nit raises, so Doyle just moves all in, the nit verbally reasons out loud that the only hand doyle would move all in with was an ace high flush, and folds showing a flopped king high flush - which is obviously a rather exceptional laydown, doyle didn't show his hand

Within a couple of hours the nit had lost his whole bankroll and was never seen again, the rest of the players blew him out of every pot and he predictably kept folding

Doyle says his big mistake was to carry on playing nitty after showing that huge fold - the only circumstances he should have shown that laydown was if he intended to call future bets from other players who would now be much more likely to bluff him, if he intended to carry on playing nitty, he should have kept it a secret by not showing his cards

I have never made a fold as big as that before, but I have a few times in a live game folded decent hands when I thought I was beaten and showed it, not because i wanted people to bluff me, but more for my ego hoping the other player would show their hand and prove me right

Have you ever made a point of showing a fold to induce bluffs in future and did it work?
Seb
Full House


Joined: 29 Dec 2011
Posts: 912

PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:44 am
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I showed pocket aces when I knew the other guy had turned a set, to get under his skin and keep him in line. That's the only reason I would show a laydown and it would depend on the opponent. You would have to expect good players to bluff you slightly more after that, so you'd be aware of that against them. Being aware of the psychological relationship you have with each player at the table is perhaps the most important skill in poker.
shAAAArkbait
Trips


Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 107
Location: No live poker

PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:04 am
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I never show huge laydowns, i think you would get pushed around alot more, with people thinking they can push you off hands. I would hope they thought I was chasing a draw and I could exploit that next time. I only ever show huge bluffs, then hopefully next time i make the same play i have the nuts and get a call. The physciolocigal part of the game is facinating and like hands people play things totally differently, its what makes this game so great.
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Pizzicato
Straight Flush


Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 3266

PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:22 am
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Showing cards is seriously overrated imo
MFCMark00
Straight


Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 369

PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:52 am
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Pizzicato wrote:
Showing cards is seriously overrated imo


Gives other more information, and yourself a chance to level yourself in future.
TripSixes
Straight


Joined: 31 Jan 2013
Posts: 487

PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:29 am
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Played Black Belt Live at Aspers a few months back. A well known player had just sat at my table and saw me making a big bluff on the turn against another player. I had 3bet pre-flop with JQo in position and double barrelled the flop then the ace high turn then showed the bluff. I reckon because of me showing, he lost all his chips to me.

2 hands after this, I 3bet AA against him and he called. Flop came 9JJ, he checked and I checked behind for deception. Turn is a blank, he checks again so I bet half pot and he calls. River comes J - he checks again and I stick in just under half pot and he agonises then calls. He flopped the boat with 99 and I got lucky. Anyway, 4 hands after this, with the bluff I showed and this hand still in memory, he raises pre again, I have AK. I 3bet, he 4bets, I 5bet, he shoves instantly and I snap against his AJ and he's out.


Last edited by TripSixes on Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:43 am; edited 2 times in total
zebediah
Freed


Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 5877

PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:29 am
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The thing I hate most is not knowing what an opponent had, so makes sense it would be the same for them.
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zebediah
Freed


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:36 am
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TripSixes wrote:
Played Black Belt Live at Aspers a few months back. James Dempsey had just sat at my table and saw me making a big bluff on the turn against another player. I had 3bet pre-flop with JQo in position and double barrelled the flop then the ace high turn then showed the bluff. I reckon because of me showing, he lost all his chips to me.

2 hands after this, I 3bet AA against him and he called. Flop came 9JJ, he checked and I checked behind for deception. Turn is a blank, he checks again so I bet half pot and he calls. River comes J - he checks again and I stick in just under half pot and he agonises then calls. He flopped the boat with 99 and I got lucky. Anyway, 4 hands after this, with the bluff I showed and this hand still in memory, he raises pre again, I have AK. I 3bet, he 4bets, I 5bet, he shoves instantly and I snap against his AJ and he's out.


Your showing the bluff had little bearing on the outcome it seems to me. Maybe you just like to think you "played him"?

Most people who show a bluff you can be guaranteed they aren't making another one for the next few hours in my experience. It's really funny when they show a bluff then don't play a hand for 30 mins cos they are card dead and dare not get out of line again. Smile

I just accept I will sometimes get bluffed.
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TripSixes
Straight


Joined: 31 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:45 am
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Ok the AA hand probably had nothing to do with it, should have left that but out but in about 10 hands, I had 3bet 4 of them preflop so an aggressive image rather than the bluff maybe helped here
Jack Starr
Straight Flush


Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 3118

PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:21 pm
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Pizzicato wrote:
Showing cards is seriously overrated imo


Monkeys shows their bums, poker players show their hands! Very Happy
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Barny
Mobster


Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Posts: 1136

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:23 am
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I made a big laydown against David Benyamine in the WSOP 10K PLO a few years ago. I didn't show my hand but by the way I was thinking it was probably face up anyway.
As soon as I mucked David said "So you can sleep tonight..." and showed the one hand that was beating me.
You might say he was lining me up for a later bluff, and certainly he gave no information by showing a hand that played itself, but basically he was just being nice and I've liked him ever since.
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stowjon
Royal Flush


Joined: 26 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:52 am
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Jack Starr wrote:
Pizzicato wrote:
Showing cards is seriously overrated imo


Monkeys shows their bums, poker players show their hands! Very Happy


my fave post for ages!
galty
Flush


Joined: 14 Jan 2010
Posts: 566

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:03 pm
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Jack Starr wrote:
Pizzicato wrote:
Showing cards is seriously overrated imo


Monkeys shows their bums, poker players show their hands! Very Happy



But your a cash player.
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neilcaterham
Quads


Joined: 07 May 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:45 pm
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I would say 99% of the time i never show, but sometimes my head grows and i cant help clicking show hand. Should really be on auto muck
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knifeboy62
Quads


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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Location: Bristol

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:09 pm
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Barny wrote:
I made a big laydown against David Benyamine in the WSOP 10K PLO a few years ago. I didn't show my hand but by the way I was thinking it was probably face up anyway.
As soon as I mucked David said "So you can sleep tonight..." and showed the one hand that was beating me.
You might say he was lining me up for a later bluff, and certainly he gave no information by showing a hand that played itself, but basically he was just being nice and I've liked him ever since.


As expected this is the right answer. Good players know what is going on anyway - bad players like to find excuses for why they got leveled into a bad play later. It doesn't really matter unless by revealing you confirmed a suspected tell that someone else had noticed.

The mix of the table between sharks/donkeys makes a big difference imo, if lots of donkeys then show (if you are way better than they are) and be one so the guys in their eyes. Lots of sharks - show nowt.
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