You are the Tournament Director Series 5: Show and Take, Last Live Hand or Split Pot?
This one was sent in by Scott Kenyon:
It amazes me how many places treat this situation differently and also how many different dealers act in this situation and I would welcome the TDs opinions on what they feel the dealers should/shouldn't do in this situation:
In an NLH tournament on the river Player A makes a bet and Player B calls the bet. Dealer says 'Show and Take'. Player A throws his/her hand directly into the muck. Player B pushes their cards over the line face down.
(I know the cards are still live unless the dealer has pulled them into the muck but I am interested to see what your panel of TDs feel the responsibility of the dealer is in this situation, having already said 'Show and Take' and the cards have been pushed over the line face down. Also I am interested to see whether your TDs feel the last 'active' hand still wins the pot regardless or whether the cards should be mucked by the dealer and the pot split... I have had both situations happen many times and it's one of the annoying situations where consistency would be nice... sadly this doesn't happen!)
I’m one of the few who does not believe that a player should only be required to show their hand if someone asks. At the WSOP, if a hand is played to showdown, then the winning hand must be “shown.” When there are millions of dollars at stake, it should not be easy for players to dump chips. If left up to suspicion, the best cheaters will fool you 9/10 times. I take the guess work out of it, and force the winning hand to show every time. Players who violate this rule at the WSOP will receive a warning/penalty.
So now, the situation in this case is very clear, player B has the last active hand and receives the pot!
Player B doesn’t have to show his cards. Poker is a game of information. I think it is unfair for Player A to get information about Player B’s cards when Player B is the person who has paid to see A’s hand.
FIDPA (The International Poker Rules) Ruling (Marcel Luske)
David Flusfeder (IFP – International federation of Poker)
We absolutely agree that there is problem with consistency in this area. Not only do different events rule differently but different dealers at the same event often seem to take varying approaches. The reason always cited for winning hands needing to be shown is to prevent chip dumping, but we feel that if not a complete red herring, this problem seems to be somewhat overstated. None of us can ever remember seeing a case of chip dumping being uncovered by enforcing a showdown, and while you may say this just proves that the rule works it's easy to see how it could be got round most of the time by the dumpee raising the dumper off the pot. We feel that if someone has genuine cause for concern they should be able to ask for the action to be stopped, to explain their concerns to the TD and to ask for mucked hands to be shown - showdown or not.
Out TDs are all in accord about awarding the pot to the last active hand. There really is no room for ambiguity here and no reason to award half the pot to the player who - on being called - opted to muck their hand. However some cases may not be so clear (for example the dealer misses the fact that another player still has cards) and we think there is therefore a case for always showing cards in order to claim the pot. After all you normally have to do this even when playing the board.
As we have said, there is no reason not to have consistency in this area. If you do then as well as avoiding errors and injustices the game is sped up and there is less scope for angle shooting. In summary we would say that on showdown players should act in turn from the last aggressive action; On their turn each player should fold or show...quickly. If a player mis-declares their hand without showing it, or pretends to muck in order to get another player to show first, or muck a winning hand, this should be subject to a penalty. Anyone wishing to claim any part of the pot should show their hand. However, if as in this case, the calling playing is the last one with cards and mucks in turn they should still get the pot. Repeated refusal to show cards (or muck/show in good time when it's a player's turn to declare) should be subject to warnings and possible penalties.
Get sponsored by the Mob