You are the Tournament Director Series 5: How Much does He Lose in this Pot?
This one happened to Darren Sprengers, a Mob Forum regular.
Player A shoves all in and it is Darren’s turn
How do you rule?
FIDPA (The International Poker Rules) Ruling (Marcel Luske)
54.4 Dealers should only count and inform players of the amount to be called, if requested by a player with a live hand.
Any player is responsable for his or her game and actions and understand that mistake s can happen,at all times, even in this case when it is verry unfortuned for the loosing player, we must concider that he or she could have won it as well.
The decission to pay the total 13.500 would be fair!
David Flusfeder (IFP – International federation of Poker)
Darren didn't ask the player for a count he asked the dealer, and the form of words he used: 'How many chips does he have?' amounted to a request for an exact or near exact sum.
It is true, as Matt Savage says, that poker is a visual game but a player has the right at any time to ask the dealer for a count of an opponent's chips. Were he to ask the player, the player would be under no obligation to respond beyond making sure his chips were clearly on view. The dealer on the other hand is obliged to respond and the player asking the question is entitled to an accurate answer. In this case it is slightly grey because the dealer didn't cut down the chips and give an exact figure, but in the absence of a correction from the called player we feel in all fairness that Darren was entitled to assume that the estimate was accurate.
The question is also begged, what if the dealer had cut down and counted the chips and still made a mistake and given Darren the wrong count? Would Darren have been entitled to more protection then? If you would answer yes, then you have to ask, what essentially is the difference. In both cases he has asked the dealer as is his right, and in both cases has relied on the dealer's reply rather than the evidence of his own eyes.
There is an obvious problem of course with allowing him to call an inaccurately estimated amount. How inaccurate is inaccurate? Should he have had to call 9,000, or 9,500? But notwithstanding this issue of where to draw the line, the dealer was clearly on the wrong side of it in this case. We would therefore in the interests of natural justice and for the good of the game, allow Darren to pay the 8,500 rather than the 13,500.
We are very much siding with the minority here but we feel that David Lamb and J P Mcann are seeing the bigger picture. We would also warn players to be more vigilant in checking what they are told, and explain to the dealer that he should not be so casual in responding to a request for a count.
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