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You are the Tournament Director Series 5: Chip Slips Out of Hand

This one was sent in by Bobby Amirahmadi.

After reading your ask the TD section I wanted to gauge some opinion on something that happened to me last weekend. I was playing in a freezeout at The Western Club and was involved in a pot heads up.

I had bet pre and post flop, checked the turn and fired again on the river.

As I went to fire 2500 on the river, one of the 1000 chips slipped out my hand and as a result only 1500 went over the line. The dealer immediately said he would accept the 2500 bet as there was clear good intention to bet that much.

The other player spent some time thinking and then announced "I should call for a ruling but I'm going to fold" - Thank god for that as I was holding 99 on a AKQ 7 4 board (he showed a queen).

What I want to know from the TD's is if a ruling was called which way would it have gone? Please bear in mind it was obvious to everyone on the table, including my opponent, that I intended to bet the entire 2500 in my hand.

Jack Effel
Common sense comes into play here. I would allow the bet to stand at 2,500. It seemed clear to everyone at the table including the dealer how much Bobby was trying to bet.

Thomas Kremser
Very often the player’s intentions are obvious but decisions are based on pure facts. If a player bets 1500 because a 1k chip remains in his hand than it is a 1500 bet unless he announced 2500.

David Lamb
The bet is 1500. I would base my decision on the action that did occur, not what our eyes might have us believe was intended to happen. You bet 1500, you can state the amount or put chips into the pot in one motion.

David Luzago
In this case both the dealer and the other players agree that the act were not done on purpose. If the intention was very clear an exception can be done to the string bets rule.

Matt Savage
It is another reason I hate betting lines, 2,500 bet IMO.
 

Thomas Lamatsch
My intention is to decide always in the sense of the game. If a player is taking 2500 chips in his hand, obvious to raise this amount and during the movement, one or more chips are falling down, I would decide, that all chips are counting!

JP McCann
The technical ruling would be that this is a string bet and that only the 1500 would stand. However, this is a good example of how a common sense ruling should be made in the interest of the game. I would allow the full bet of 2500 to stand.

FIDPA (The International Poker Rules) Ruling (Marcel Luske)
Intentions are always good but are not always what gets done so we must look at the fairness for all. It can not be left up to a dealer to let players get away with mistakes even when they are not intended!

Rule 58.2 - Chips must be pushed over the 'betting line' and/or released into the pot in one motion. If a 'betting line' is NOT present on the tournament table, any chips released or pushed in a forward motion, in turn, without a verbal declaration will be considered a binding bet. So the bet is 1500.

A dealer is there to guide the game and state irregularities, not to do favours to anyone !

David Flusfeder (IFP – International federation of Poker)
I allow the whole 2500 bet: significant forward motion is the important thing, rather than the touch of chips to felt (Rule 31 ‘Making a Bet’: Any chips that are moved in a significant forward motion, whether or not they touch the table, will be deemed a bet.) Nonetheless, it would have been a good idea for the player to have announced his bet before making the bet. Many problems at the poker table could be avoided by unambiguous statement of intent!

Mob Verdict

Whenever our TDs are split down the middle as they are here, you know there is an interesting issue at stake. Jack, Matt and Thomas all take the view that the player's 'clear intent' should trump the technicality. Others see this as inconsistent and prefer to stick to the letter of the law. Marcel Luske makes some interesting points: Is it not possible to be fooled by a player about what his intentions are? And is it the job of the dealer to do anything beyond applying the letter of the law? We understand Marcel's points but the truth is that there are always grey areas, and such common sense decisions are being made all the time. We think this is fine so long as players have the right to call for a ruling if they disagree with the dealers decision. If rulings were called for on every occasion it would slow the game down too much and we are in favour of the dealer having the initial say. We wish to encourage an ethos where dealers take an intelligent interest in the game and forcefully control it, rather than just blindly following orders. Of course this should never be a case of 'doing a favour'. Matt and David both raise the issue of the betting line and we agree that 'clear forward motion' is a more reliable indication of intent than the line, although you would still get this kind of issue arising either way. In this particular case we favour letting the bet stand at 2,500.

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