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You are the Tournament Director Series 2: Leaving Your Seat

In a NLH tournament a player raises and another player then re-raises all-in. As the original raiser was taking an eternity to decide whether or not to call, the all-in player informs the dealer that he is going to the toilet, to which neither dealer nor player voiced an objection. A minute or so later, however, the original raiser summoned the TD for a ruling, claiming that the all-in player had folded by virtue of leaving his seat. How would you rule?

Danny McDonagh Danny:
Given that neither the dealer nor original raiser had objected to the all in raiser going to the toilet nor called the TD over, I would allow the bet to stand. If a player had asked me if he could go to the toilet I would generally ask him to remain at the table while the hand was in play unless I saw he was in dire need of relief!

Thomas Kremser Thomas:
The hand of the All-in player is live and will play.

Matt Savage Matt:
Dealer error for letting the player leave... should have called the floor. All-in players hand plays.

Roy Houghton:
First thing is ask the dealer what had happened. Why did the player leave his seat? Dealer says what's happened. I allow it. You've got to take notice of who informs you. You can't make a snap decision.

Luke Ivory:
I would rule that the player who is all-in is still active in the pot and his hand is still live. I would put the action on the player facing the bet and if he calls I would expect both hands to be turned up.

If the player who had left the table had not yet returned, I would have the dealer turn his cards up and would warn the player of the mistake he made in leaving his seat, giving him the reasons why.

I would not consider coming down on the side of the player who called for a ruling as I feel they are being a little too finicky, after all they had a chance to object to the player leaving his seat when he announced his intention to do so.

I feel that sharp practice and enforcing the letter of the law is becoming much too prevalent these days. Players should remember that the rules are there to protect the innocent and the ignorant, and not to be used by more experienced players as a loophole to be take advantage of.

Mel Judah Mel:
As we know, players should be seated before the last card is dealt to the button for their hand to be live. At present, there is no rule implemented for a player leaving the table in the middle of playing the hand, therefore his hand is still live. I feel a rule should be implemented for the future that a player would have to complete the hand before excusing himself from the table, or his hand will be dead.

A similar situation occurred in the main event at the WSOP when Scotty Nguyen was heads up and his opponent got up and walked around whilst Scotty was thinking. He then asked to be excused to the restroom. There was no objection and the hand was not made dead. They waited for him to return and continued playing.

It was impossible for Scotty to get a read on his opponent whilst he was away from the table and for this reason a rule needs to be enforced that a player remains at the table until the hand is completed or his hand be made dead.

The Mob Verdict

This is a true story and was posted on the Mob Forum by regular poster ‘Moo’. It happened in the Grosvenor Casino, Luton, England and this is what Moo said about the incident.

“The TD made a most bizarre ruling: instead of making a firm decision either way, (s)he said that the all-in player's hand was folded but his uncalled chips did not constitute part of the pot. (S)he was basically acknowledging that, despite having contravened the letter of the law, the all-in player hadn't really done anything wrong (in which case, in my view, he should not be punished at all). I was astonished, but not half as astonished as the all-in player when he returned to discover that, whilst he'd been defecating in the toilet, the TD had been doing something similar to his tournament.

Whilst I understand why a player should not be allowed to leave the table in these circumstances (it prevents active players obtaining a read), I agree that common sense should prevail.”

All our Tournament Directors are in general agreement that the hand plays. The player who has been considering the all in bet is clearly shooting an angle. It’s not as if the player who wanted to go to the toilet has any further decisions to make. If the player considering the call wanted to object then he should have done so before the player left.

There are some interesting points brought up. In particular Mel Judah thinks that there should be a specific rule about leaving the table just as there is for a player not being in his seat when the hand is originally dealt. He relates a true story regarding World Champion Scotty Nguyen regarding getting a read on his opponent which is also interesting.

The specific ruling at Grosvenor Luton is strange to say the least and it would appear that there is not a particularly good understanding of the situation or that the TD in this situation doesn’t have the confidence to stand up to a particular player. If he/she is going to rule that the raise is returned then both hands should be turned face up at that point as the player has now called the bet. To rule that he has called and then declare his hand dead because he is in the toilet is in our opinion a bad ruling.

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