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You are the Tournament Director Series 2: I Had An Ace Too!

This one was sent in by Richard Neilson.

“I have directed poker games for a few years now and recently a dispute arose on one of our tables which nearly stumped me. I think it would make a great question to ask the 'directors' and maybe let me know if I made the decision which the majority agrees with!

Here is the situation,

7 seat table. Two players left after the turn, the board so far reads

Ks Qh 8h - 10d

Player A is sat in seat 1 and Player B is in seat 4 with the button in seat 6.

Player A bets the pot and Player B re-raises the pot which Player A flat calls. The river comes a Jc

Player A checks and player B moves all-in and is called making it the biggest pot of the night and many spectators have now crowded round the table to watch the action..... Now comes the problem! The dealer beckons to the players to show down, both Player A and Player B pick up their cards and flip them over into the middle of the table with the result being that all 4 cards land at exactly the same time in the same place and manage to shuffle themselves leaving only the ace of Clubs exposed as the top card. Player A lunges towards the pile saying "the Ace and the jack are mine!" to the response from Player B saying "I had an ace too!......but mine was with a king" The dealer managed to secure the cards before any player managed to retrieve any cards, leaving the dealer to open the cards revealing a 9 and jack of hearts and a king and ace of clubs exposed on the table.

With both players claiming the ace and neither backing down and no definite way to clarify who is lying I was about to split the pot between both players involved when a member of the audience came up to me and said she had just heard one of Player A's friends who had been gathered at the table say "He done that same thing in Dublin and he got away with it there too!" The lady had told me in a loud enough voice for Player A to hear her and from the reaction from his face I could see that this was probably true so I turned my decision round and awarded the pot to Player B and suspended Player A for 20 minutes away from the table. I realise it is a very unusual situation but it just shows that no matter how sophisticated the game becomes it still can depend on the honesty of its players.

One thing is certain however... if it can happen it will happen in Ireland! ;-)

What are your comments?

Danny McDonagh Danny
I would not rely on comments from the crowd and split the pot unless it could be 100% determined who was the rightful owner of the Ace.

Thomas Kremser Thomas
I would declare a Split pot and I would not base my decision on the information of a friend. I would decide based on the facts I am getting from the actual situation. Players have the responsibility to protect their cards.

Matt Savage Matt
Tough one and why most casinos have surveillance cameras in the USA but I would have to consider who was in the pot at the time and I unfortunately would not have listened to someone on the rail but would ask for information from the dealer and those at the table. If no one could be sure I would have to split the pot and warn both players that I would be watching them for the rest of their card playing days. I would also first do my best to talk the cheater out of his scheme with harsh consequences.

Roy Houghton Roy
I don't agree with it. I'd have split the pot. I can't take no notice of what a woman spectator says.

Luke Ivory Luke
I would split the pot. I would not make a ruling based on a statement from an onlooker saying they heard someone had done this before as this is unfair and open to abuse. (We’ll give you a fair trial before we hang you).

Mel Judah Mel
It looks as though you may have made the right decision because player A bet and B moved all in. However, I would have still split the pot and given both player A and B a penalty for throwing their cards in the middle. Players should turn their cards face up in front of them. You as a Tournament Director should not be influenced by people who are not playing on that table.

Mob Verdict

All of our tournament directors are in agreement here and splitting the pot is what we would have done as well. It is impossible to allow someone watching to influence your decision based on something she saw or heard at another place and time. Mel gives the players a penalty for throwing their cards in the middle. It sounds like this was a cash game so a time penalty wouldn’t really work.

We would explain to both players to protect their own hands better so that similar situations don’t occur in the future.

Based on the information given by the spectator plus the action in the hand it does seem more likely that the two hands were AK suited and J9 suited rather than AJ o/s and K9 o/s and for all these reasons we would also keep a close eye on player B just in case something does happen again.

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