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The Dean
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:24 pm
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Quote:
[quote="darrensprengers"]
David Moyes is a good manager.He has a proven track record and needs to be given time.



Proven track record in what?????????????????????

Proven at winning the CL??????
Proven at winning the title????????
Proven at outsmarting the best coaches in the world tactically?????
Proven at handling top class players????????
Proven at handling a billion dollar football club??????
Proven at attracting the worlds best players because of his CV?????????

Would you stake someone to play NL600 online because he was proven at NL50?????
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:48 pm
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RVP out for between 4-6 weeks confirmed.......even less chance now vs Bayern
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:24 pm
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[quote="The Dean"]
Quote:
darrensprengers wrote:

David Moyes is a good manager.He has a proven track record and needs to be given time.



Proven track record in what?????????????????????

Proven at winning the CL??????
Proven at winning the title????????
Proven at outsmarting the best coaches in the world tactically?????
Proven at handling top class players????????
Proven at handling a billion dollar football club??????
Proven at attracting the worlds best players because of his CV?????????

Would you stake someone to play NL600 online because he was proven at NL50?????


So give me a logical reason why a man with x amount of league titles and 30 years of running the football side of things would stick this man up as the ONLY candidate in his eyes and the boards blessing
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It was one of the privileges of my poker life to watch Barny win his bracelet, putting on a master class in front of an audience who would have run onto the stage and carried him over the ****ing line if thats what it was going to take. There is bracelets and there is bracelets. This was one of the very special ones...Padraig Parkinson
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:08 pm
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[quote="The Dean"]
Quote:
darrensprengers wrote:

David Moyes is a good manager.He has a proven track record and needs to be given time.



Proven track record in what?????????????????????

Proven at winning the CL??????
Proven at winning the title????????
Proven at outsmarting the best coaches in the world tactically?????
Proven at handling top class players????????
Proven at handling a billion dollar football club??????
Proven at attracting the worlds best players because of his CV?????????

Would you stake someone to play NL600 online because he was proven at NL50?????


And fergie had all of these when we made him manager did he?

exactly he had none. David Moyes is a good manager. what he did at everton with a hugely limited budget and the quality signings proves that.
He has made one mistake so far and that is fellaini. he was playing well for everton so i can understand that.

Chelsea employ all the best managers, by your nonsense criteria, and they are lucky to still be in a job by the following february.

Its not the united way. it might be if they spend 200 million and win f'all for a few years. we may emply the show pony mourinho.

as has been said by many he has inherited a poor team. a lot of good individuals but a team in transition. Chelsea, city, arsenal were all very poor sides last year. all have made big signings. oscar, hazard, ozil, All are playign much better this year whilst unted have got worse.

The only thing that has really concerned me is that moyes has brought all of his backroom staff and got rid of all the incumbents. i think this was a big mistake as his initial team selections seem uneducated to say the least. carrick and cleverly in the centre of midfield in the olympiacos away leg seems a prime example.

we are looking very naive defensively. this can only be down to backroom staff problems and defensive coaches.

carrick and cleverley will be gone in the summer. we will have 2-3 more centre midfielders and a couple of new centre backs and boom we are back in the game. if he buys bad then look to use getting the show pony off of abramovic.
The Dean
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:52 am
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Quote:
[quote="darrensprengers"]
The Dean wrote:
Quote:
darrensprengers wrote:

David Moyes is a good manager.He has a proven track record and needs to be given time.



Proven track record in what?????????????????????

Proven at winning the CL??????
Proven at winning the title????????
Proven at outsmarting the best coaches in the world tactically?????
Proven at handling top class players????????
Proven at handling a billion dollar football club??????
Proven at attracting the worlds best players because of his CV?????????

Would you stake someone to play NL600 online because he was proven at NL50?????


And fergie had all of these when we made him manager did he?

exactly he had none. David Moyes is a good manager. what he did at everton with a hugely limited budget and the quality signings proves that.
He has made one mistake so far and that is fellaini. he was playing well for everton so i can understand that.

Chelsea employ all the best managers, by your nonsense criteria, and they are lucky to still be in a job by the following february.

Its not the united way. it might be if they spend 200 million and win f'all for a few years. we may emply the show pony mourinho.

as has been said by many he has inherited a poor team. a lot of good individuals but a team in transition. Chelsea, city, arsenal were all very poor sides last year. all have made big signings. oscar, hazard, ozil, All are playign much better this year whilst unted have got worse.

The only thing that has really concerned me is that moyes has brought all of his backroom staff and got rid of all the incumbents. i think this was a big mistake as his initial team selections seem uneducated to say the least. carrick and cleverly in the centre of midfield in the olympiacos away leg seems a prime example.

we are looking very naive defensively. this can only be down to backroom staff problems and defensive coaches.

carrick and cleverley will be gone in the summer. we will have 2-3 more centre midfielders and a couple of new centre backs and boom we are back in the game. if he buys bad then look to use getting the show pony off of abramovic.




There is no nonsense about what I said......I have no issue with giving people a chance to prove themselves as long as you go into something with your eyes open. To simply put 100% trust in someone that has never won anything is no more than blind faith. Also.....why would Fergie have even needed any of those credential back in 1986 when they hadn't won anything of note in donkeys and their value was a fraction of what it is now even allowing for inflation.

The fact of the matter is that the bar has been raised massively in that period of time.........quoting Fergie in 1986 is a TOTAL irrelevance and that actually IS nonsense Daz......sorry mate but it is. Irrespective of a managers achievements there is simply no way in this world that a manager of a Scottish club would get the United job now in 2014 and beyond. The only way I can see that ever changing is if the big two enter our league in the future and a future manager of Celtic/Rangers does well in the Prem......highly unlikely.

Remember that Fergie was also very close to getting sacked in 1990. As for what Shiver said about Moyes being the only candidate......if this is what was said by United then that is nothing short of absolute rubbish and is just spin. There is never only one candidate for any job and United could hardly say that we had other candidates who we wanted more but who for whatever reason couldn't take the job. How can you believe 100% the orchestrated press releases that are dished out by big clubs???? We also have no clue as to internal politics either or the myriad of other dealings that take place that would probably stagger us if we knew but which almost certainly happen.

Sorry but doing well at a club like Everton on a shoestring is simply not enough. FTR.....I am not a United supporter or anti-united like some. Moyes always comes across to me as a nice bloke and anybody that takes this much flak deserves to come good and I would love to see United win the CL this season. It isn't a crime to not be good enough or to take the United job when offered. But the question marks where there within the game when he got the job and nothing has changed since.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:37 pm
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The Dean wrote:
There is no nonsense about what I said......I have no issue with giving people a chance to prove themselves as long as you go into something with your eyes open. To simply put 100% trust in someone that has never won anything is no more than blind faith. Also.....why would Fergie have even needed any of those credential back in 1986 when they hadn't won anything of note in donkeys and their value was a fraction of what it is now even allowing for inflation.

The fact of the matter is that the bar has been raised massively in that period of time.........quoting Fergie in 1986 is a TOTAL irrelevance and that actually IS nonsense Daz......sorry mate but it is. Irrespective of a managers achievements there is simply no way in this world that a manager of a Scottish club would get the United job now in 2014 and beyond. The only way I can see that ever changing is if the big two enter our league in the future and a future manager of Celtic/Rangers does well in the Prem......highly unlikely.

Remember that Fergie was also very close to getting sacked in 1990. As for what Shiver said about Moyes being the only candidate......if this is what was said by United then that is nothing short of absolute rubbish and is just spin. There is never only one candidate for any job and United could hardly say that we had other candidates who we wanted more but who for whatever reason couldn't take the job. How can you believe 100% the orchestrated press releases that are dished out by big clubs???? We also have no clue as to internal politics either or the myriad of other dealings that take place that would probably stagger us if we knew but which almost certainly happen.

Sorry but doing well at a club like Everton on a shoestring is simply not enough. FTR.....I am not a United supporter or anti-united like some. Moyes always comes across to me as a nice bloke and anybody that takes this much flak deserves to come good and I would love to see United win the CL this season. It isn't a crime to not be good enough or to take the United job when offered. But the question marks where there within the game when he got the job and nothing has changed since.


Your still not giving a logical reason as to WHY they would have gone for Moyes.
Fergie would have given them notice, he would have had massive input as to who would be suitable to takeover.
They also would have waited if who they wanted wasnt available, Fergie would have given them another two years etc, who knows maybe he did??
It boils down to the fact that with the club in the settled position they have been for donkeys years the next manager would have been hand picked over a realistic period of time..it boils down to the fact...they and i mean Fergie and the board WANTED Moyes..everything points to it.
The only reason u could give that this was a swift hasty decision is that Fergies health wasnt upto much and he didnt give them much time, but he seems pretty healthy to me.
Man U's foundation is solid they 100% knew they would suffer this year,to this extent is arguable but ill wager with anyone Moyes is still in the job come Christmas day
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It was one of the privileges of my poker life to watch Barny win his bracelet, putting on a master class in front of an audience who would have run onto the stage and carried him over the ****ing line if thats what it was going to take. There is bracelets and there is bracelets. This was one of the very special ones...Padraig Parkinson
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:59 pm
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Quote:
the shiver wrote:

So give me a logical reason why a man with x amount of league titles and 30 years of running the football side of things would stick this man up as the ONLY candidate in his eyes and the boards blessing



So you know this to be 100% factual then do you!!!!!!!!!

Don't tell me.......its because United/Fergie said that he was Laughing

United openly courted other managers for ages to replace Fergie including Guardiola who according to many sources turned United down in favour of Bayern and is one of the worst kept secrets in football. The facts simply do not support Moyes being the "only candidate" which is ludicrous. Obviously United have to make the statement supporting Moyes as the "only candidate". If I had a grand in my pocket for every time I have heard a club say that their new manager was the "stand out candidate" or the "only candidate" then I would have more moolah than Phil Ivey.

But its a free country and people are at liberty to believe whatever they want. If some supporters want to believe that Moyes was "the chosen one" then good on them. He was "chosen" in my mind after they failed to land a better alternative in the time frame that they had. You have to remember that there are only so many candidates available at any one time that COULD do that the job and there are not that many available stella names in world football and the ones that could take the job also have other options.

I heard Moyes say the other day that his lack of CL experience was offset by all the CL games and footage that he had seen on video. That should come in really useful when they take on Bayern

Very Happy
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:28 am
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How long do u think he will last at Man u?
Because in all seriousness, we arent talking about taking over The beer and barrel 2nd XI on Hackney Marshes here.
Its not unrealistic that they could have been courting managers for the last decade (Fergie wanted to walk then and did a u turn)
I personally think that whats being under estimated here is how much input Fergie had on this decision and theres no way he would have gone for a "hollywood" manager as for him when he handed over the reigns what he built would have been far more important than a short term Champions League spot.
If as you say all of the stella names were gone, explain why they wouldnt have gone for a Rodgers or a Martinez?
Rodgers was easily enough pryed away from Swansea 18 months back
In short ill say it again Fergie wanted Moyes, he saw/sees attributes in him that he could/can see in himself at that age and the board was always going to give the blessing finances allowing to whatever name Fergie stuck up, because when youve run the football side of things for 30 years and brought as much success as he has to the club how could anyone even contemplate arguing that they would know better who they should be appointing
You clearly think Moyes is a bit of a joke in this appointment and you could well be proved right but my point is the fault lies with Fergie and the board..not Moyes, yes hes made the odd mistake hes been given a nigh on impossible job to replace his fore runner he could only ever get knocked
I think he will come good and by that i mean competitive in all competitions..Fergie was given 6 PL titles purely on the strength of competition
As u say footballs changed and the Premier League is a lot harder to win these days
I think Moyes remit at the start of the season was to keep them in the Top 4, on that score hes come up short but in no way on this planet will this man get sacked in the next 6 months for this seasons results.
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It was one of the privileges of my poker life to watch Barny win his bracelet, putting on a master class in front of an audience who would have run onto the stage and carried him over the ****ing line if thats what it was going to take. There is bracelets and there is bracelets. This was one of the very special ones...Padraig Parkinson
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:48 pm
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the shiver wrote:
How long do u think he will last at Man u?
Because in all seriousness, we arent talking about taking over The beer and barrel 2nd XI on Hackney Marshes here.
Its not unrealistic that they could have been courting managers for the last decade (Fergie wanted to walk then and did a u turn)
I personally think that whats being under estimated here is how much input Fergie had on this decision and theres no way he would have gone for a "hollywood" manager as for him when he handed over the reigns what he built would have been far more important than a short term Champions League spot.
If as you say all of the stella names were gone, explain why they wouldnt have gone for a Rodgers or a Martinez?
Rodgers was easily enough pryed away from Swansea 18 months back
In short ill say it again Fergie wanted Moyes, he saw/sees attributes in him that he could/can see in himself at that age and the board was always going to give the blessing finances allowing to whatever name Fergie stuck up, because when youve run the football side of things for 30 years and brought as much success as he has to the club how could anyone even contemplate arguing that they would know better who they should be appointing
You clearly think Moyes is a bit of a joke in this appointment and you could well be proved right but my point is the fault lies with Fergie and the board..not Moyes, yes hes made the odd mistake hes been given a nigh on impossible job to replace his fore runner he could only ever get knocked
I think he will come good and by that i mean competitive in all competitions..Fergie was given 6 PL titles purely on the strength of competition
As u say footballs changed and the Premier League is a lot harder to win these days
I think Moyes remit at the start of the season was to keep them in the Top 4, on that score hes come up short but in no way on this planet will this man get sacked in the next 6 months for this seasons results.




Shiver.......don't misunderstand me......I am certainly not saying that Moyes is a joke.......that couldn't be further from the truth. He is clearly an excellent manager and that cannot be argued and joke managers don't get the OT job. It would also be showing a lack of respect and insulting the intelligence of the people that hired him who are clearly highly intelligent and experienced in what they do. I am merely saying that IMO it was a big gamble to hire him based on his lack of proven credentials in certain areas. I am sure United were aware of that gamble of that I have no doubt and I also have no doubt in my own mind that he wasn't the only candidate or even the leading one for that matter but that's never going to get divulged.

This doesn't mean that he won't be successful......he may just well be and I really hope that he proves a lot of people wrong because as I said, any bloke that takes this much stick kind of deserves to ram the critics. I also don't believe as you say that he will be sacked within the next 6 months either.....there is no logic in that.......but......next season will be different because the patience will be wearing very thin if United start 2014-15 badly and the prospect of another season right off is looming. September-November will be critical for him.

As for Rodgers / Martinez..........once again I think the jump is too big to make the leap from Swansea / Everton/ Wigan to Old Trafford. I know Rodgers has done well at Liverpool but Liverpool despite their history were not at the same level as United in terms of expectation or club value and so Swansea to Liverpool isn't the same. I think it all comes down to probabilities and most appointments are gambles to some degree but with some being more so that others. Many managerial appointments baffle me to be honest but you have to give the people involved the benefit of the doubt simply because they have access to more data in which to make a decision and it isn't always possible to get the ideal candidate as timing is critical with any appointment.

I know this debate could go on forever and so probably time to call quits Very Happy
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:42 pm
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Fair enough Dean, I actually agree with a large part of your last post.
I think these days its actually ALOT harder to manage a football club than buy one !!
The sackings this year are getting to the point of being brainless.
Fulham for example....new owner 3 managers
Cardiff..yep theyve improved unbelievably with Solskaer havent they?
Swansea..awful job Laudrup did, took them to their only domestic silverware in 100 odd years 9th last year....
No stability anymore
What price Sherwood kicking off the new season as Spurs head coach?
The maddest one to make my point is Chelsea..Sack Mourinho then spend one hundred billion trillion on coach contracts and compensation and end up winning the CL with a caretaker boss then go full circle and re employ the guy you sacked 6 years ago lol
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It was one of the privileges of my poker life to watch Barny win his bracelet, putting on a master class in front of an audience who would have run onto the stage and carried him over the ****ing line if thats what it was going to take. There is bracelets and there is bracelets. This was one of the very special ones...Padraig Parkinson
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:58 am
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the shiver wrote:
Fair enough Dean, I actually agree with a large part of your last post.
I think these days its actually ALOT harder to manage a football club than buy one !!
The sackings this year are getting to the point of being brainless.
Fulham for example....new owner 3 managers
Cardiff..yep theyve improved unbelievably with Solskaer havent they?
Swansea..awful job Laudrup did, took them to their only domestic silverware in 100 odd years 9th last year....
No stability anymore
What price Sherwood kicking off the new season as Spurs head coach?
The maddest one to make my point is Chelsea..Sack Mourinho then spend one hundred billion trillion on coach contracts and compensation and end up winning the CL with a caretaker boss then go full circle and re employ the guy you sacked 6 years ago lol




Reading between the lines, I don't think Sherwood has much chance of still being WHL boss next term unless they come 4th which is slim. I think he was only ever a stop gap but I also think that he is perhaps too abrasive for Levy's taste. I think you are spot on in that it is tougher to manage a prem club than to buy one. You look at look at people like Nigel Pearson and Sean Dyche at Leicester and Burnley and you see managers who will be amongst the favourites to get sacked next season when chairmen/owners panic when they see a possible 90 million per season slipping away after a bad start.

As for the sackings this season.......you have to wonder wtf these owners are thinking at the interview stage. I am not a big fan of foreign managers coming into our prem with limited or no experience of our league and then getting jobs at struggling clubs. This is a world away from managers with proven success in their own highly competitive leagues who then come and manage a top club. I think the game plan for survival is totally different and in my mind a lot of foreign managers don't tap into whats required soon enough.

Pepe Mel, Solksjaer and Magath seem strange appointments to me but I suppose owners can afford to role the dice when you are trading off a couple of million in compo compared to what could be several more seasons in the Prem with that knowledge that if you go down then it could be years before you get back. What is absolutely INEVITABLE with all clubs is that at some stage they will go through bad runs but I think it is what is happening internally with some clubs that is the problem. There is more liaison between chairman and club captain than is apparent and so owners get to hear about what is happening in training or in the dressing room and if all isnt well they will act and this isn't always obvious to the fans.

But if a managers methods are not working for whatever reason then this has to be a failure at the application stage when the manager has been sacked after so few games. As for championship managers that come up, they become favourites to get sacked but two things are certain......they will get another job pretty quickly and they are all earning far more money than me so I don't feel like grieving for them Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:45 pm
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Dance
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:33 am
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Indestructible wrote:
Dance



How did I know that when I logged on here this morning that you would have posted on this thread Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:50 pm
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Mr. Green

Ps had a bet on the Maccams to win at 18 to 1 tonight Angel
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:04 pm
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Indestructible wrote:
Mr. Green

Ps had a bet on the Maccams to win at 18 to 1 tonight Angel


That all?
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