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The Dean
Straight Flush


Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 3209
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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 5:55 pm
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darrensprengers wrote:
Lets have a young team. drop the help the aged. Plan for the wc in 2 years and the next euros

Hart

Cole
Cahill
Lescott
johnson(would be smalling but injured)

Walcott
Parker(wiltshire but injured)
cleverley
Young

Carroll(Rooney when the douche is not banned)
Wellbeck





I am all for this as well......at least you get around the problem of our older players and the blatant "baggage" that they are carrying from recent tournaments and being around the international set up for too long. Players like Gerrard, Lampard etc may be great at club level but they clearly haven't produced at International level and if they performed for their clubs like they have done for their countries then they would have been dropped.

I know it isn't as easy as that in all likelihood but our older so called "golden generation" are too punch drunk to be effective IMO.
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Brodders
Quads


Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1600

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 6:33 pm
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darrensprengers wrote:
Lets have a young team. drop the help the aged. Plan for the wc in 2 years and the next euros

Hart

Cole
Cahill
Lescott
johnson(would be smalling but injured)

Walcott
Parker(wiltshire but injured)
cleverley
Young

Carroll(Rooney when the douche is not banned)
Wellbeck


There's some outrageous club bias going on here ! Not sure what Smalling or Cleverley have done to warrant selection over anyone. Cleverley in particular has seemed to become an exponentially better player (in Man U fans eyes) the longer he's been out !

Am surprised you haven't found a spot for Phil Jones as a holding midfielder and kicked Parker out Rolling Eyes
Checkov
Royal Flush


Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Posts: 10111

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 7:19 pm
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That's how I'd line up. Roy would obviously push the wide players deeper.

----------- Hart

Johnson Cahill Lescott Cole

------ Parker Milner

--- Ox Gerrard Young

-------- Carroll
Nem
Royal Flush


Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 17557

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 7:29 pm
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darrensprengers wrote:
Lets have a young team. drop the help the aged. Plan for the wc in 2 years and the next euros

Hart

Cole
Cahill
Lescott
johnson(would be smalling but injured)

Walcott
Parker(wiltshire but injured)
cleverley
Young

Carroll(Rooney when the douche is not banned)
Wellbeck


LOL
darrensprengers
Misclick


Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 7551

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 7:41 pm
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Brodders wrote:
darrensprengers wrote:
Lets have a young team. drop the help the aged. Plan for the wc in 2 years and the next euros

Hart

Cole
Cahill
Lescott
johnson(would be smalling but injured)

Walcott
Parker(wiltshire but injured)
cleverley
Young

Carroll(Rooney when the douche is not banned)
Wellbeck


There's some outrageous club bias going on here ! Not sure what Smalling or Cleverley have done to warrant selection over anyone. Cleverley in particular has seemed to become an exponentially better player (in Man U fans eyes) the longer he's been out !

Am surprised you haven't found a spot for Phil Jones as a holding midfielder and kicked Parker out Rolling Eyes


smalling is a one of the best young defenders in the country. happy for him to be right back.
cleverley had 16 appearance at under 21 and is one for the future if he can stay fit.
Wellbeck is class and a definite for the future.

or are you arguing that rooney or young should not be included?

Maybe football is not your thing unless its a 2nd division team in mexico?

the only bias is we are the only top team that seems to invest in youth. i guess we could put aaron lennon in if we need someone to run down cul-de-sacs. or maybe walcot if you need someone to run really quick for no reason.

I guess you want carrol up front? why not he has played well for two games. wellbeck has played well all season and kept a striker out of the team that would get into almost any other squad in the premiership.

To be honest i dont give a shit who they play for aslong as we dont have lampard, gerrard, terry, ferdinand, or any other old guy that wont be playing in 2years. we have no chance in this tournament. lets blood the youth and give them experience for the world cup and have a real run at it. lennon, walcot, sturridge. who the f**k ever. but lets be forward thinking for a change and not try and rely on reputation as opposed to abilty.

i am a big fan of defoe for example but he cant even hold down a spot in a crumbling spurs sides. he is also 29.
Brodders
Quads


Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1600

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:02 pm
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darrensprengers wrote:
Brodders wrote:
darrensprengers wrote:
Lets have a young team. drop the help the aged. Plan for the wc in 2 years and the next euros

Hart

Cole
Cahill
Lescott
johnson(would be smalling but injured)

Walcott
Parker(wiltshire but injured)
cleverley
Young

Carroll(Rooney when the douche is not banned)
Wellbeck


There's some outrageous club bias going on here ! Not sure what Smalling or Cleverley have done to warrant selection over anyone. Cleverley in particular has seemed to become an exponentially better player (in Man U fans eyes) the longer he's been out !

Am surprised you haven't found a spot for Phil Jones as a holding midfielder and kicked Parker out Rolling Eyes


smalling is a one of the best young defenders in the country. happy for him to be right back.
cleverley had 16 appearance at under 21 and is one for the future if he can stay fit.
Wellbeck is class and a definite for the future.

or are you arguing that rooney or young should not be included?

Maybe football is not your thing unless its a 2nd division team in mexico?

the only bias is we are the only top team that seems to invest in youth. i guess we could put aaron lennon in if we need someone to run down cul-de-sacs. or maybe walcot if you need someone to run really quick for no reason.

I guess you want carrol up front? why not he has played well for two games. wellbeck has played well all season and kept a striker out of the team that would get into almost any other squad in the premiership.

To be honest i dont give a shit who they play for aslong as we dont have lampard, gerrard, terry, ferdinand, or any other old guy that wont be playing in 2years. we have no chance in this tournament. lets blood the youth and give them experience for the world cup and have a real run at it. lennon, walcot, sturridge. who the f**k ever. but lets be forward thinking for a change and not try and rely on reputation as opposed to abilty


I didn't mean to touch a nerve !

I don't recall making any comment about Rooney, Young or even Wellbeck (all be it I think his finishing is a concern). I don't agree that Smalling is anywhere near as good as you suggest. I think he's suspect positionally and not good enough going forward (apart from set plays where he's a danger) Glen Johnson is only 27 and is a better version of Smalling (with the same weaknesses), Kyle Walker (when fit) is better still in my opinion and to be honest I'd have Micah Richards all day long over Smalling.

Cleverley has been out for most of this year and has seen his stock rise beyond belief - what exactly has he done to warrant a place ahead of the likes of Gerrard or Lampard ? Your argument of not being around in 2 years time holds no water as this is the culmination of the last 2 years. By all means, drop them for the World Cup qualifiers and build the next team towards them but it would be crazy to not play your best players at the target competition.

Bear in mind, I'm not saying that Cleverley can't become an extremely good player, but to put him forward on the basis of a few games this year as the future of the England side is laughable.

It's all about opinion and we'll probably have to agree to disagree. You clearly have strong opinions about players that you see more than others which is the same for all of us but it would be like me putting forward Josh McEachran (who by the way has the potential to be better than any of them !)

As to your assertion that you're the only top team to invest in youth... Rolling Eyes

What Man Utd do is buy 19-23 year old players that are already beginning to be established at their club sides for over the odds. Sometimes it pays off but often it doesn't. If that's investing in youth then I'm a monkeys uncle. All the top clubs look to buy the best 15-17 year olds and try to bring them through. Chelsea have won the Youth FA Cup again this year so arguably have the best young players coming through but I wouldn't argue that we are the only top team to invest in youth !

I believe (and I'm happy to be corrected by any neutrals out there) that Cleverley and Smalling shouldn't remotely be in the team. You believe otherwise. That's why football produces the emotion it does.

I suggest we discuss this in person next time over several Beer

PS - Mexican 2nd Division is very underrated !! Wink
darrensprengers
Misclick


Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 7551

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:29 pm
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1. if you think my suggestions are bad now wait till you hear them after several pints.
2. didn't touch a nerve and to be honest i forgot kyle walker and i would def put him in there depending on strategy or type of opponent.
3. its not so much i believe cleverley should be in there yet. it is more he is the type of player(fast and creative) i would like to see promoted to the england set up. if not him then a better version. not another gerrard, whom while amazing at club level, can be found wanting versus the best teams in the world. he is perhaps not the best example as he has put in many a great performance for england but god forbid we get another carrick/lampard.

my main point was youth.

terry past in
ferdinand past it/never had it
gerrard great player just too old. can keep in at a push
carrick dont get me started.
lampard. past it/never had it. too slow for international football. this clown has had enough tournaments to express himself and he has been our worst player in them all.

time to drop them. gerrard has always been a fav of mine(for england obviously the scouse f**kker). so at a push keep him in. the rest should not get a look in.
not with so many defenders that i believe are faster and better. micah richards an excellent shout too.


Last edited by darrensprengers on Wed May 30, 2012 9:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
Seb
Full House


Joined: 29 Dec 2011
Posts: 912

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:44 pm
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How many English midfielders can play in a 4-4-2? Fewer all the time, I reckon.
darrensprengers
Misclick


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Posts: 7551

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:51 pm
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Seb wrote:
How many English midfielders can play in a 4-4-2? Fewer all the time, I reckon.


4-5-1 is a good shout but i dont think the england fans will be too happy when we play it.

to be honest if carrol could find some form i would be tempted to target man him and run the line and have rooney and young deep. unfortunately carrol has played well for two games and the euros are in two weeks. not sure how he will do against the best defenders in the world.
iTerror
Two Pair


Joined: 29 Feb 2012
Posts: 97
Location: In Ur Head

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:51 pm
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If only Scholes wasn't past his best!

Although i do agree with building a more youthful side and dropping the older guys. Didn't Holland do the same and got to a final? And Germany kinda done the same thing i believe.

I think we do have a lot of good young players about up and down the country but we do seem weak in forward positions. Sturridge is far too greedy for me although he does have talent. And i'm not convinced with wellbeck yet, but we'll see in time.
darrensprengers
Misclick


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Posts: 7551

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:55 pm
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iTerror wrote:
If only Scholes wasn't past his best!

Although i do agree with building a more youthful side and dropping the older guys. Didn't Holland do the same and got to a final? And Germany kinda done the same thing i believe.

I think we do have a lot of good young players about up and down the country but we do seem weak in forward positions. Sturridge is far too greedy for me although he does have talent. And i'm not convinced with wellbeck yet, but we'll see in time.


i know what you are saying. wellbeck just does not seem like the clinical finished article. i dont know if i am comparing him to ruud though.

portugal and spain both had golden eras where they won f**k all. spain not done too bad with a predominantly young team. The final was an embarrassment to football tbh.
Nem
Royal Flush


Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 17557

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:56 pm
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Lol at Ferdinand never having it ( I assume that you're talking about Rio here) I guess you forgot about WC 2002 for his international recogintion. In recent times how many central defenders have been at OT for a decade...

As for Lampard, you dont come 2nd in the world player of the year award if you wasn't a bit special. The season they did the double he had 16 goals and 21 assists as a 31 year old.

Oh and international football is neither faster or of a better quality than the EPL.


Last edited by Nem on Wed May 30, 2012 10:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
iTerror
Two Pair


Joined: 29 Feb 2012
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Location: In Ur Head

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:59 pm
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Well Argentina fans moan that Messi doesn't play as well for them as he does for Barcelona. So if this is true then it just shows it can happen to a lot of players. Lampard was terrific for Chelsea but i wouldn't have him in the England team either; i always fancied Gerrard over him as i thought he was a more complete player. Now i wouldn't have any of them.
darrensprengers
Misclick


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 10:04 pm
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Nem wrote:
Lol at Ferdinand never having it ( I assume that hou're talking about Rio here). As for Lampard, you dont come 2nd in the world player of the year award if you wasn't a bit special. The season they did the double he had 16 goals and 21 assists as a 31 year old.

Oh and international football is neither faster or of a better quality than the EPL.


i will be gentle as you are in mourning.

Club teams buy players. When you have a good manager. he arranges the team and buy players that compliment each other. In this way a team can rise above the sum of its parts and win stuff(i will pm you what that means). Unfortunately what that means is you get players that can get artificially high stats because of how good the other players are. you can also get players that are very good but just dont fit in(veron--arrgghhhh).

Now whilst a lampard or a barnes can have an amazing season at club level they may just not have the ability to transfer that to country level. A very good example of this is messi. An amazing player but when he plays for his country you see how underatted the rest of his barca team are.


Lampard has consistently performed in the league. He has consistently not performed in big tournaments. so do we a) yet again go with him.b) treat him like barnes- he will come good or c) realise he is not going to do it at international level and move on.

Most sensible people at the age of 32 would think its time for a change.

p.s try going to a load of west ham games watching ferdinand in midfield(multiple pos) and 10s of games at united. he caught the tail end of a great united side and has vidic.
he is good at club level. i dont think he has every been international class. terry in his hay day was an outstanding natural defender.
darrensprengers
Misclick


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Posts: 7551

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 1:22 pm
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Danny Wellbeck is a very small 19 year old? Wink


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