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sheriffatman
Straight


Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 417

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:03 pm
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quick update - recapped first session and heard it all this time (which was nice), also managed to accquire the book in PDF form after some tribulations seeking a hard copy (gave-up on that) which makes things much simpler for me

- shame whammer didn't get in, but hey, we tried our best for ya mate!

- can't quite believe the power of the images to aid recall, and having fun creating particularly vivid ones (the gorier the better!) for cards played

- 'This week, I have been mostly'....... wandering around the house, putting images to locations, mentally exploding them, and trying to actively track players online, whilst simultaneously getting to grips with Oovoo/Twitter/pdf-files and other 'new-fangled thingummajigs' (out of touch - moi?) Very Happy

- have struggled a bit with the picture cards, and with the fact that my synapses have been somewhat neglected of late, but getting there (like British Rail - slowly!), and gaining confidence all the time!

- (picturing my brain as an 8 stone - weakling noob at the gym, but hoping it will look more like Charles Atlas after the course!) Mr. Green

- bring it on!
gherkin
Trips


Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 109

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:24 pm
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Had my first training session last night and was pleasantly surprised! I am always sceptical when somebody tells me they can significantly improve my memory, so I was unsure how it would work out.

I'm doing a few different things than the others, with the goal to improve my Stud game. At the moment I use Stud Indicator when I play online, so tracking cards isn't an issue (as the software does it for you). It leads to the problem that when I play live, I struggle to remember the cards folded and get tired (and give up) very quickly in a session when I try and focus on doing it.

The "traditional" way of remembering the dead cards, which I have been taught from books and coaching videos, is to repeat the cards in your head over and over in ascending order (ace being 1) and count the number of "dead suits" separately. There are 2 problems I have with this. #1 it distracts me from fully concentrating on the hand I am involved in and #2 if you have more than 3+ players getting to 4th/5th/6th street I find it hard to remember/add on the additional dead cards (if they are folded).

In an ideal world I want the dead cards (and suits) in the back of my mind, so I can recall them as and when I need them in the hand, rather than having a list of cards at the forefront of my mind distracting me. Obviously you tend to notice/remember the dead cards that are relevant to YOUR hand but as your opponents hands develop, you can get a better idea of their likely hand by looking at both their betting patterns and recalling the dead cards. The dead cards also help with the number of outs you or your opponent have if on a draw.

So, this first session Bennett emphasised the importance of learning images associated with each card, which is going to be extremely important in Stud. Earlier I had downloaded the flash cards and had a go at learning them, it was a bit frustrating at first as I didn't have much success but I think with a few more hours work will get me there.

We tried to memorise 10 cards in sequence using his techniques. I was surprised how well it worked (9/10 right), and it definitely made me think there might be something in this and has encouraged me to make more effort with learning the image associated with each card. We got the same success rate (~90%) when we tried to remember the remaining 6 cards from half a deck of cards, once the other 20 had been revealed one by one - something definitely not possible by trying to visualize the cards themselves in your head.

Whilst parts of the system we went through yesterday were designed for Holdem, Bennett is working on a way to adapt it for Stud and I'm really looking forward to seeing how this works out
sheriffatman
Straight


Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 417

PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:31 pm
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- 3rd session today and we are now tracking 4 players' vpip at the tables (stepping-up to 6 this wk) [no-way in hell, I could do that at the start!]

- it's a beautifully-simple system to implement, once you understand the framework and have a good grasp of the images etc.

- we also memorised superbowl and oscars winners, which would have been practically impossible for me, without the system (I hate rote-learning with a passion - it is sooooo dull!)

- learning the lists has proven tough for me, but getting there now, and looking forward to the more practical applications of what we are learning, which I feel will be more my forte

- regarding the book itself (out in the UK this wk, I believe, for those interested), it is extremely clear and concise in it's message - definately no flim-flam or filler here!
(The structure is somewhat-unusual, but very effective, and easy to follow)

- aiming to get to the level of "unconscious competence" with tracking this week, so I can do it without thinking/trying
Grumbledook
Royal Flush


Joined: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 16061

PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:05 pm
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your posts have made me look forward even more, still waiting for it to show up fwiw
mjb
High Card


Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 10:09 pm
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Well, just finished, and was comfortable enough to go to Foxwoods, and use Bennett's methods for VPIP. It was a bit of a struggle at first(sort of like blackjack card counting, which I've also done) but got it down, and it was very valuable. After about 3 hours, I was kind of toast mentally, but look at this early info, just 3 times around the table.


Check out these patterns of play on the first 30 hands:

Seat
1. played 2 hands of 30 (weak tight)
2. changing players too frequently, no real read
3. played 15 of 30, slight aggression, smallish raises, $15 in 1-2, but never pot type bets on flop. Usually $15+
4. Worst player at table, played 21 of 30 hands. Lost hundreds. Maybe over $500-700.
5. Me
6. Decent, played 25-30%, but seat changed a few times. Russian kid here for just a bit.
7. Similar to above
8. Guy left a bunch, bathroom, etc., so no numbers.
9. Tight as hell, Played 4 hands. $15 pre flop bets, sometimes all in on flop. Very tight, very aggressive.
10. Another Russian, older guy. Almost as tight as above, played 5 hands. Bet same way too. And it didn't matter pre flop what you had bet. He was doing what he was going to do no matter what you did. So, if I had 78s, I'd limp and hoped he'd fold or limp. I wasn't going to call his bets if he played. So position was key, but if he, or seat 9 were going to act behind, I'd be more careful playing, and limp, hoping they'd fold. I wasn't going to commit $15 to see a flop, then $40-50 for a turn card on a draw. I'd go broke.

Bennett's book is very valuable, IMO. I could track players for about 2-3 hours, then I got a little exhausted, but by then I had at least my table down, except for new players. Switched tables and could use methods again for about 1 round, before I started getting a little drowsy, as it was approaching 4 am, and had been playing 9 hours, doing this method. I'm usually good til about 3 am before I start yawning, and this added work. I need to get in better shape.

Very well worth the effort, at least for me. I can do pot odds, outs, etc., like to C bet, and feel I'm okay post flop. But knowing the percentages of opponent's hands? Not before this. For example, I use Sklansky's rankings, and I'm with Harrington that in deep stack play, Broadway cards, while not bad, won't win as much money as drawing hands, and that you should look almost exclusively for hands to stack people, so as Sklansky has 98s as his # 21 hand, just at top 10% cutoff, I like this. It's a hand I want to play, though not necessarily bet big or call heavy pre flop bets. I don't want folders, but more players. But, if an opponent who's playing 40% of the hands bets 5 bb's pre flop, why not play this hand? If an opponent playing 10% of his hands bets 5 bb's pre flop, not as easy a call, esp if heads up. Knowing this is huge. Well worth it. I won about 9 bb's per hour, got stacked pretty good once. With two hearts in hole, 79s limp from the big blind, I turned a flush, but so did opponent 1 card higher. Ouch. Stacked people pretty good 3 times, with two sets(2's and 6's) and 1 straight. The two set stacks were vs players at a later table who played more than half the hands, and rarely laid down a hand. One guy played 7 of the first 10 hands after I sat down. A perfect player to slow play a set against. But if I wasn't forced to pay attention by tracking, I wouldn't have known this detail.
BennettOnika
One Pair


Joined: 30 Mar 2012
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 2:29 am
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Grumbledook wrote:
your posts have made me look forward even more, still waiting for it to show up fwiw


Thanks if you have any further questions just email or tweet me
whammer
Full House


Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 1238
Location: ESSEX

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 9:14 pm
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shame the technology failed for me but appreciate the effort bennett and sherriff put in to make it happen

gl all with the studies and keep posting updates
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Allardyce Out ! We want a FOOTBALL manager.
BennettOnika
One Pair


Joined: 30 Mar 2012
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 9:18 pm
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whammer wrote:
shame the technology failed for me but appreciate the effort bennett and sherriff put in to make it happen

gl all with the studies and keep posting updates


Yes it is we can chat tou through it over email i you want
Grumbledook
Royal Flush


Joined: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 16061

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 4:11 pm
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Have the books been sent out yet?

I've still not received my copy, what about you other guys who were expecting one?
gherkin
Trips


Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 109

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 5:54 pm
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Grumbledook wrote:
Have the books been sent out yet?

I've still not received my copy, what about you other guys who were expecting one?


Not got mine either
BennettOnika
One Pair


Joined: 30 Mar 2012
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 1:18 am
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gherkin wrote:
Grumbledook wrote:
Have the books been sent out yet?

I've still not received my copy, what about you other guys who were expecting one?


Not got mine either


Were you supposed to get it from ECW or Hendon mob?
The Mob
Site Admin


Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Posts: 4498

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:14 am
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BennettOnika wrote:
gherkin wrote:
Grumbledook wrote:
Have the books been sent out yet?

I've still not received my copy, what about you other guys who were expecting one?


Not got mine either


Were you supposed to get it from ECW or Hendon mob?


As for the giveaway copies of the book, you can let me know the names and mailing addresses of the three winners when the time comes and I'll ship the books out to them directly.
Alexis - ecwpress - Fri, 23 Mar 2012 5:15pm

Mob Support - Mon, 2 Apr 2012 10:33am
Hi Alexis,

Here are the details of the three winners. Please let me know when the books have been dispatched.

J Bowers
xxx

David Tighe
xxx

Jim Bob
xxx

Great! Thanks. I'll get them sent off right away.
Best, Alexis

Alexis - ecwpress - Mon, 2 Apr 2012 4:00pm
BennettOnika
One Pair


Joined: 30 Mar 2012
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:42 pm
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The Mob wrote:
BennettOnika wrote:
gherkin wrote:
Grumbledook wrote:
Have the books been sent out yet?

I've still not received my copy, what about you other guys who were expecting one?


Not got mine either


Were you supposed to get it from ECW or Hendon mob?


As for the giveaway copies of the book, you can let me know the names and mailing addresses of the three winners when the time comes and I'll ship the books out to them directly.
Alexis - ecwpress - Fri, 23 Mar 2012 5:15pm

Mob Support - Mon, 2 Apr 2012 10:33am
Hi Alexis,

Here are the details of the three winners. Please let me know when the books have been dispatched.

J Bowers
xxx

David Tighe
xxx

Jim Bob
xxx

Great! Thanks. I'll get them sent off right away.
Best, Alexis

Alexis - ecwpress - Mon, 2 Apr 2012 4:00pm





Thanks Alexis!
Grumbledook
Royal Flush


Joined: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 16061

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:16 pm
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I've still not received this btw...
SeanFoley
Quads


Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 1868
Location: Birmingham

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:59 pm
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Maybe you have received it, but forgotten you had.
_________________
Do I know Darren Sprengers?

Yes, he thinks he's superior... but he isn't.
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