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chaos
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 5:52 pm
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Who'd like to play teacher ? Hopefully something to get the grey matter going. Suppose you had some poker students under your wing. You are to oversee your students play a 3 hour session on-line. How would you score/assess their performances. What criteria would you use? How would you rank them in order of imorportance ?
How then would you weigh them?

The following example is crude, but is an idea of what I am driving for.


Three criteria: Entry Strategy Smile (the things you might do/consider before playing), Game Strategy (The playing of the game), Exit Strategy (When to leave).

Each criteria is marked out of 100, and weighed 10 %, 80 % and 10 % respectively. If a student scores 50,90,50 then the overall score would be 0.1 * 50 + 0.8 * 90 + 0.1 + 50 = 82.

As I said this is a very crude assessment and naturally those criteria could be broken down into other lower level criteria criteria, that would be easier to score. An example of a low level criteria could be ... 'did the student look at several sites and limits befores choosing a game' or 'how well did the student mix his bluffs' ..etc.

I realise this is a toughie and is a bit off the beaten track - even suggestions for criteria would be useful.

regards chaos
PeterB
Flush


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 625

PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:07 am
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Hmm, Interesting.

I would rank "choice of game" lower online than I would in bricks & mortar, particularly at the more popular limits. My reasoning is that online there are always a number of people in search of "the most promising game". This means that a loose game quickly tightens up and a tight game will tend to get looser (because the people sitting down will be less "picky" players). So, pre-game strategy, 5%. This should include "do not play when tired, do not play when drunk, do not play when angry".

Exit strategy is more important. If you have been in a loose game but the two fish who have made it a good game go broke or leave while they are still up, you should leave as well, even if you are "stuck". You are now probably facing seven other rocks and you will not get "your" money back in this particular game. Choosing to leave a "good" game just because you have gone a long way up, but then lost a bit of it back, is also a common mistake. Stay for as long as the game remains good and you remain alert. 10%.


Strategy during game:
Weighting here is much harder. Basically you need to look at the way the most common decisions are made, since these are the most important. Harder decisions that come up infrequently are less important because they are less common (I am referring here to limit play. In NL and PL, the less frequent decisions go up in weighting because of an added function, the size of the likely loss or gain) comes into play. As they say, in PL and NL you can make quite a few little mistakes, so long as you never make any big ones. In Limit you can make a "big" mistake, but the trick is not to make lots of little ones.

Those "little" ones that crop up all the time include:
(a) pre-flop: adjusting hand valuation depending on position (15%)
(b) throughout hand: adjusting hand valuation depending on other people's play during the hand (15%)
(c) pre-flop: adjusting hand valuation depending on the number of players in a pot (10%)
(d) pre-flop: adjusting hand valuation depending on the type of game you are playing (loose/tight, aggressive/passive) (10%)
(e) on river: being willing and able to lay down an almost certain loser at the end despite pot odds of more than 10-to-1. (5%)
(f) throughout hand: not going on tilt, ever, but, if you are going on tilt, spotting it and stopping playing (5%)
(g) throughout hand: seeing how upcards affect the potential of your hand and opponents' likely hands, seeing how upcards affect your chances of winning (25%)

(I am assuming here that as given that the players have some basic knowledge on hand strengths).



I'm sure that there are others, but is that any good as groundwork?

Pete

--Previous Message--

: Who'd like to play teacher ? Hopefully something to get the grey matter going.
: Suppose you had some poker students under your wing. You are to oversee your
: students play a 3 hour session on-line. How would you score/assess their
: performances. What criteria would you use? How would you rank them in order of
: imorportance ?
: How then would you weigh them?
:
: The following example is crude, but is an idea of what I am driving for.
:
:
: Three criteria: Entry Strategy Smile (the things you might do/consider before
: playing), Game Strategy (The playing of the game), Exit Strategy (When to
: leave).
:
: Each criteria is marked out of 100, and weighed 10 %, 80 % and 10 %
: respectively. If a student scores 50,90,50 then the overall score would be 0.1
: * 50 + 0.8 * 90 + 0.1 + 50 = 82.
:
: As I said this is a very crude assessment and naturally those criteria could
: be broken down into other lower level criteria criteria, that would be easier to
: score. An example of a low level criteria could be ... 'did the student look at
: several sites and limits befores choosing a game' or 'how well did the student
: mix his bluffs' ..etc.
:
: I realise this is a toughie and is a bit off the beaten track - even
: suggestions for criteria would be useful.
:
: regards chaos
Aksu
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2003 1:51 pm
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: This should include "do not play when tired, do not play when
: drunk, do not play when angry".

Hat trick for me. No points =( Hat tricks are not very common tho.

: Those "little" ones that crop up all the time include:
: (a) pre-flop: adjusting hand valuation depending on position (15%)
: (b) throughout hand: adjusting hand valuation depending on other people's play
: during the hand (15%)
: (c) pre-flop: adjusting hand valuation depending on the number of players in a
: pot (10%)
: (d) pre-flop: adjusting hand valuation depending on the type of game you are
: playing (loose/tight, aggressive/passive) (10%)
: (e) on river: being willing and able to lay down an almost certain loser at
: the end despite pot odds of more than 10-to-1. (5%)
: (f) throughout hand: not going on tilt, ever, but, if you are going on tilt,
: spotting it and stopping playing (5%)
: (g) throughout hand: seeing how upcards affect the potential of your hand and
: opponents' likely hands, seeing how upcards affect your chances of winning
: (25%)
:

I would put more emphasis on how the player manipulates the game by hes own action. All the above is about knowing ones changes to win. Next step is knowing how I can improve those changes (EV wise of course). This is hard to write down in a detail however. I try to add few letters

h) knowing when to thin the field and when trap the field
j) knowing how to do it (if possible)
k) knowing when to bluff
l) knowing when to induce a bluff
......

-Aksu
chaos
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2003 5:25 pm
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Thanks to both of you, in particular the effort you put in Peter - I have to admit I wasnt sure anyone would reply. Fortunately the new design of the forum allows the thread to sit for a few days, so i'll wait before I add my thoughts or try to summarise/ draw conclusions etc. What is interesting is the intermediate criteria that appear to be surfacing. Peter seemed to highlight Adaptability and Discipline. Aksu seemed to pick up on the ability to Control the game. There maybe room for others too perhaps a creative criteria. Perhaps the first stage should have been to identify the traits of a good player ~ control, adaptability, discipline, creativity + ...etc and then drag out the activities that encompasses these traits, which you have both made a very good start on...

Many Thanks

chaos

--Previous Message--

: Who'd like to play teacher ? Hopefully something to get the grey matter going.
: Suppose you had some poker students under your wing. You are to oversee your
: students play a 3 hour session on-line. How would you score/assess their
: performances. What criteria would you use? How would you rank them in order of
: imorportance ?
: How then would you weigh them?
:
: The following example is crude, but is an idea of what I am driving for.
:
:
: Three criteria: Entry Strategy Smile (the things you might do/consider before
: playing), Game Strategy (The playing of the game), Exit Strategy (When to
: leave).
:
: Each criteria is marked out of 100, and weighed 10 %, 80 % and 10 %
: respectively. If a student scores 50,90,50 then the overall score would be 0.1
: * 50 + 0.8 * 90 + 0.1 + 50 = 82.
:
: As I said this is a very crude assessment and naturally those criteria could
: be broken down into other lower level criteria criteria, that would be easier to
: score. An example of a low level criteria could be ... 'did the student look at
: several sites and limits befores choosing a game' or 'how well did the student
: mix his bluffs' ..etc.
:
: I realise this is a toughie and is a bit off the beaten track - even
: suggestions for criteria would be useful.
:
: regards chaos
Big Dave D
Straight


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:49 pm
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Sorry I missed this guys...ive been destroyed by WORMS Blaster for over a week Sad

Im not sure on the weighting, but focusing on the basic numbers as illustrated by any of the standard hand history analysis tools out there is a tremendous learning tool...assuming Internet and prob. limit play of course.
gl

dd

--Previous Message--

:
: Thanks to both of you, in particular the effort you put in Peter - I have to
: admit I wasnt sure anyone would reply. Fortunately the new design of the forum
: allows the thread to sit for a few days, so i'll wait before I add my thoughts
: or try to summarise/ draw conclusions etc. What is interesting is the
: intermediate criteria that appear to be surfacing. Peter seemed to highlight
: Adaptability and Discipline. Aksu seemed to pick up on the ability to Control
: the game. There maybe room for others too perhaps a creative criteria. Perhaps
: the first stage should have been to identify the traits of a good player ~
: control, adaptability, discipline, creativity + ...etc and then drag out the
: activities that encompasses these traits, which you have both made a very good
: start on...
:
: Many Thanks
:
: chaos
:
: --Previous Message--
:
: : Who'd like to play teacher ? Hopefully something to get the grey matter
: going.
: : Suppose you had some poker students under your wing. You are to oversee
: your
: : students play a 3 hour session on-line. How would you score/assess their
: : performances. What criteria would you use? How would you rank them in order
: of
: : imorportance ?
: : How then would you weigh them?
: :
: : The following example is crude, but is an idea of what I am driving for.
: :
: :
: : Three criteria: Entry Strategy Smile (the things you might do/consider before
: : playing), Game Strategy (The playing of the game), Exit Strategy (When to
: : leave).
: :
: : Each criteria is marked out of 100, and weighed 10 %, 80 % and 10 %
: : respectively. If a student scores 50,90,50 then the overall score would be
: 0.1
: : * 50 + 0.8 * 90 + 0.1 + 50 = 82.
: :
: : As I said this is a very crude assessment and naturally those criteria
: could
: : be broken down into other lower level criteria criteria, that would be
: easier to
: : score. An example of a low level criteria could be ... 'did the student
: look at
: : several sites and limits befores choosing a game' or 'how well did the
: student
: : mix his bluffs' ..etc.
: :
: : I realise this is a toughie and is a bit off the beaten track - even
: : suggestions for criteria would be useful.
: :
: : regards chaos


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