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tommymac
Chip Collector


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 2590
Location: walsall

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:33 am
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Well so far feb has been an expensive month had to pay 3k+ for tuition fees, new phone contract, crazy high petrol prices but I wont bore you on all the shitty details Very Happy

Anyway, get a ring from my mate this morning asking if I fancyed going casino for the 15 freezeout, so I say yes but tell him I might be late because Im playing tennis...

Tournament starts at 4:30, Ive got a coaching session from 3 til 4, arrive at the tennis club at 2:55 and no sign of my coach so I hang around til 3:10 when he arrives, have my lesson etc etc (beat: my coach beat me 6-4 in a set at the end of the session) but im running like 10 mins behind as we don't finish til 4:10 anyway Id arranged to pick my mate up at 4:15 so I raced home (making sure not to set off the speed camera by the WBA training ground Angel) jumped in the shower grabbed some food and drink and was back out the house by 4:20!
Boring drive to my mates stuck behind a bus ffs anyway get to his for 4:25 and then get to casino for just a tad after 4:30. (normally Ill allow 20mins to make the drive to casino via my mates so 10mins is pretty nippy Smile ).

So we pay up 15+4=19 (remember this) and the tourney is 4 mins in, blinds 25/50 so i post my 75, I dont touch my cards and allow the dealer to muck them! Played pretty aggro for the first 3 levels as im on a table full of nits, I probably 3bet or raised 10/11 of my hands and only once did I get re-raised! Im sitting on about 17k before I get As9s in MP, It folds to me (blinds 300/600) I raise to 1500, CO calls everyone else folds flop comes ATT rainbow, I bet 2.2k, CO calls, turn is a 9, I check CO bets I fold. This was a totally player specific fold (wont go into detail as this isnt in hand analysis).

Anyway that takes a chunk out my stack (13k~ now) next hand I get 99 and I make it 2k (I had been mixing my raises up anything from 2.5x to 4x), CO calls and so does the SB (who moved to the table with 45k after table balancing) BB folds, flop comes 5c7h9c, SB checks I bet 2.5k, CO calls and then SB sets me allin I obv call, CO also tank calls and the cards are flipped;
Me 9h9d = top set
CO 9sQc = top pair
SB 8c8h = 2nd pair + gutshot
Now obviously before I write this you know the 6 is coming on the turn and I miss the paired board on the river so thats it im out ffs Rolling Eyes

Go over to my mate who is still in ask how he is doing and then go for a walk round casino, I watch him play for around 2 hours (I busted at 6:30~) so its now like 8:30 and theres a cash game going, Ive never played live cash so I thought while my mate is chipped up ill sit down for abit just for experience. Anyway, its a 50p/1 game with min buyin of 25, I watched what everyone is sitting down with and its approx 25/30, so I sit down with 30. It was just starting up so initially there were only 5 of us, 2nd hand in i get KK, some guy on tilt snaps me off with KQ and I double up, so I had about 60~ infront of me (just gotta say 10% rake (cap 5) is mad) and then i fold a few hands and I get JJ in LP (long story short) I got a guy to stack off on the flop with A high after I flopped a set, happy days I ran my 30 upto 97.50 in my first ever cash game, I probably played for another 50mins or so before I announced id leaver after i posted blinds, it cost me an extra 12 but i didnt want to hit and run on the people.

So 19+30 = 49 buyins, cashed out 85.50 so a nice 36.50 profit Very Happy


My mate who is a complete fish + luckbox took down the tourney for 280, I wish poker would give me abit of luck!
----

Now after this experience ive got a few questions about what happened;

1, Are cash games always this aggro, people stacking off pre with A5o (9 handed), calling shoves with K7s etc? or was it just chance I got a table with a bunch off tilted off guys?

2, Should you tip the dealer at the end of your session, the 1st dealer we had was very good, new everything that was going on etc but the 2nd dealer when they changed was abit slow and had trouble working out pots/rake etc, he made a few mistakes, should you tip? (I never saw any other players tip when they left)

----

anyway hope you enjoyed reading about my day and my first live cash game!

and also my 1800th post Mr. Green
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Phil
Full House


Joined: 25 Oct 2004
Posts: 793

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:19 am
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1) 50p/1 cash games in casinos are equivalent of 2c/4c online.

2) Tip if you want, but tip good dealers, not bad ones just because you think you should.
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BenCB5
Trips


Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 148
Location: Gold Coast, Aus

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:45 am
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I only tip the 'good' dealers - but to be fair I still don't like it because majority of times its pooled together and the sucky dealers get a share! If the dealers kept their own tips I'd be far more inclined!!

Nice work on the cash table... Average casinos (G, Aspers, etc) seem to have loose cash games like that, DTD is obviously a much higher skilled cash game... If you have enough reload money to counter when that K7s gets there; I've always found live cash profitable...
Shaun
Two Pair


Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:00 am
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Well done on the cash table

Just a note to help prepare you for your love of cash games

You ideally want to be sitting down with 100BB's. so if its a 0.5/1 game, sit down with 100
If the rest of the table are only buying in for 25/30 then your not sitting at a table of poker players, your sitting at a table of losers who just wanna get their money all-in either pre-flop or on the flop with a draw, this way they dont have to face any tough desisions on the flop, turn or river

Be carful of this type of table, it will skullfuck you from time to time when the losers get lucky once all-in

You will find that the swings you experience from this type of table are massive, one seesion your 300% up, next session your 400% down - it all depends if the losers get lucky or not

If you think your gonna like cash games as opposed to tournys and you think your a decent ABC poker player, get in a game with more money on the table.
You dont nessicarily have to move up levels, just make sure everyone has a minimum of say 80 infront of them if its a 0.5/1, that way your not gonna get a loser going all-in pre-flop with 7/8 suited

Happy fishing
Shaun
mddgfc
Straight Flush


Joined: 04 Jul 2006
Posts: 3035
Location: belfast

PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:16 am
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surely you want them going all in pf with 78 suited though?
X
Quads


Joined: 08 Oct 2009
Posts: 2462
Location: Earth X

PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:56 am
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^ this, surely?!

...especially if you can reload with 100bb, after a bust-out, and still have them covered...

not that I play at that level generally, but a fish is a fish
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Shaun
Two Pair


Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:38 pm
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mddgfc wrote:
surely you want them going all in pf with 78 suited though?


Only if you can get them isolated
But what you will find is that 5 players go all in by the flop with draws, their total odds of winning the hand as a collective against you totally dominate any made hand
This is fine if you wanna play the lottery, but if you wanna play poker - stay away


Shaun
tommymac
Chip Collector


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 2590
Location: walsall

PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 pm
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Hey guys thanks for the input,

I dont know how this differs from casino to casino but at G walsall the cash games only really get going once people have busted from the 4pm tourney and are waiting for the 9pm tourney to start.

Every person in this cash game had busted from the 4pm tourney, so people were pretty tilted and were just looking to play some flips (post flop)

The game was playing very passive, only on 2/3 occasions was the money AI pre, however because of the shallow structure it was usually AI by the river.

Its not something I am going to play every week because its so shallow but when the game looks soft I will defo play it.
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X
Quads


Joined: 08 Oct 2009
Posts: 2462
Location: Earth X

PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:51 pm
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Shaun wrote:
mddgfc wrote:
surely you want them going all in pf with 78 suited though?


Only if you can get them isolated
But what you will find is that 5 players go all in by the flop with draws, their total odds of winning the hand as a collective against you totally dominate any made hand
This is fine if you wanna play the lottery, but if you wanna play poker - stay away


Shaun


Multi-way all-in hands with suited connectors pre-flop are unsustainable, at any level. Surely?!

The key here, is PF; not by the flop, I think.

Short stackers playing their premium hands aggressively pre-flop or small ball players taking a stab at flopping a monster cheaply are one thing. But going all-in pre-flop with suited connectors is -ev, surely?

It's a good thing when an opponent is playing incorrectly, and it is more of a good thing, when more of your opponents are playing incorrectly... unless you've got five opponents colluding, with a shared roll; then this is a game I'd step up for, without a shadow of a doubt. I would consider it to be free money, and I wouldn't want to stand around and let someone else go picking it up!!
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Homer wrote:
Among all creatures that breathe on earth and crawl on it there is not anywhere a thing more dismal than man is
Shaun
Two Pair


Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:58 am
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You are young but you will learn

The question is, do you wanna play the lotto against short stack buy-ins who will reduce the game to 'who has the best poker hand' or do you wanna play poker where you can make an intelligent player fold 2nd or 3rd pair?

If you answer in favour of the former maybe your more suited to limit poker as opposed to pot-limit or no-limit

If you answer in favour of the latter, welcome my poker playing friend, maybe we shall meet one day across the rolling green feilds with our armies ready to do battle

Shaun
Maximus Decimus
One Pair


Joined: 14 Feb 2010
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:18 pm
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Its not really lotto though is it? You just have to think about their ranges. Infact, id say its even easier

Lets say... Everyone has 100

You have AA and there is 6 of you All in pre..

Im estimating here your Aces will win like 33% of the time...

2 in 3 times your losing 100
1 in 3 Times your winning 600

+600 - 200 = +++400

Really simple, just more high variance which should be no problem atall considering after 3 weeks, you will be 400 quid up
darrensprengers
Misclick


Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 7551

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:03 pm
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Maximus Decimus wrote:
Its not really lotto though is it? You just have to think about their ranges. Infact, id say its even easier

Lets say... Everyone has 100

You have AA and there is 6 of you All in pre..

Im estimating here your Aces will win like 33% of the time...

2 in 3 times your losing 100
1 in 3 Times your winning 600

+600 - 200 = +++400

Really simple, just more high variance which should be no problem atall considering after 3 weeks, you will be 400 quid up


you have to take off the 221 hands blinds. so 9 max its 24 odd bb and 24 sb.
if you can really wait that many hands shove all in and get callers then it could be the easiest game in the world.

and rake and tip
X
Quads


Joined: 08 Oct 2009
Posts: 2462
Location: Earth X

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:30 pm
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I think my point was that there would be an optimum +ev approach to a game of this type, that would be between these two extremes i.e. blind-lotto / aces... clearly tommy managed to enjoy some success Cool

IMHO. having a table full of opponents playing very badly is an ideal situation... it's not necessary to out-level yourself into trouble and bemoan the lack of decent opposition. Just pick your spots and let them hang themselves. Of course, variance is going to be an issue, but I'd have expected a nicely positive trend.
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Homer wrote:
Among all creatures that breathe on earth and crawl on it there is not anywhere a thing more dismal than man is
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