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iTerror
Two Pair
Joined: 29 Feb 2012
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Location: In Ur Head
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 Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Rangers in crisis thread |
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| madride wrote: | | The fault lies with David Murray as the previous owner who ran the debts up then disappeared into the night although Craig Whyte if it was possible has made things even worse in the 9 months since he took over. I can't really blame HMRC they're just claiming what they're owed although I think things are personal between them and Whyte. The rumour is (and it's just a rumour) that they'll be happy to agree a settlement but only if Whyte is no longer the owner |
I can understand the anger and frustration from the Rangers fans towards, David Murray. However, nothing has been proven yet and the guy hasn't done anything different from other chairmans of massive clubs. I'm sure his decisions were in the best interests of the club.
The Trusts are used to avoid National Insurance and reduce tax for the player and the club. So in effect the players should owe HMRC money as well. I'm not 100% on the matter legally, but i assume the club is being held responsible for the players side of tax as well. It's a shame because agents put pressure on clubs to use these trusts and convince them that's the way to sign the player etc. It's all rather messy and complicated but i don't think it's clear cut and a case of saying it's one mans fault.
My wife, a Hearts fan (yeah i know, a rangers fan who just couldn't afford her bus fare to glasgow every other saturday, i don't miss a chance to remind her of this  ) is looking smug the now because she's told me for years that the OF just bankroll their success and the league would be better off without them. She's clearly wrong of course. But as i say to her, it hasn't been proven they've done anything illegal yet and the reason they were used is because of loop-holes in the system. That leads bigger clubs to take advantage of them. If it turns out Rangers do lose the case then it could be massive trouble for a lot of football clubs. I don't think a lot of people understand this. The EPL and the SPL have different rules and regulations of course but they won't be that much difference. |
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madride
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Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Rangers in crisis thread |
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| iTerror wrote: | I can understand the anger and frustration from the Rangers fans towards, David Murray. However, nothing has been proven yet and the guy hasn't done anything different from other chairmans of massive clubs. I'm sure his decisions were in the best interests of the club.
The Trusts are used to avoid National Insurance and reduce tax for the player and the club. So in effect the players should owe HMRC money as well. I'm not 100% on the matter legally, but i assume the club is being held responsible for the players side of tax as well. It's a shame because agents put pressure on clubs to use these trusts and convince them that's the way to sign the player etc. It's all rather messy and complicated but i don't think it's clear cut and a case of saying it's one mans fault.
My wife, a Hearts fan (yeah i know, a rangers fan who just couldn't afford her bus fare to glasgow every other saturday, i don't miss a chance to remind her of this ) is looking smug the now because she's told me for years that the OF just bankroll their success and the league would be better off without them. She's clearly wrong of course. But as i say to her, it hasn't been proven they've done anything illegal yet and the reason they were used is because of loop-holes in the system. That leads bigger clubs to take advantage of them. If it turns out Rangers do lose the case then it could be massive trouble for a lot of football clubs. I don't think a lot of people understand this. The EPL and the SPL have different rules and regulations of course but they won't be that much difference. |
Murray left us in millions of pounds worth of debt, constantly fed lies to the fans and sold the club to a conman for a pound. He should be ashamed of what he's done but I don't think he will be, he'll be too busy in his vineyard counting his money. Did we enjoy the success gained by the money he brought into the club? Of course we did, but the way he ran the business and the mess he's left us in is unforgiveable.
 Glad you get the digs in, don't mind Hearts actually (other than Ian Black) I was at the game last week and they played well, deserved the win. They're in a bit of a mess themselves although I'm sure mad Vlad will sort them out. I agree with your point though what's been done isn't illegal at all no matter how much people want it to be true or like to think they've been cheated somehow. Hoping the wage cuts is the start of some good news, next step cutting a deal with HMRC, ridding ourselves of the Ticketus disaster and getting a new owner with the clubs interests at hearts who's open to the idea of fan ownership. Piece of cake
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GIRUY
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Joined: 14 Feb 2012
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Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Rangers in crisis thread |
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| madride wrote: |
One simple question though please explain how we cheated to win our titles? Cheers |
What about the other inquiries underway, such as the investigations into Rangers' alleged side-contract deals with players?
If proven, this could be deemed as cheating.
According to the SFA registration rules, payments received by a player solely relating to his playing activities must be fully recorded and declared, otherwise the player has been improperly registered.
If a player is deemed to be improperly registered, his team would be awarded a 3-0 defeat for each game in which he played.
It would entirely depend on how many players have received such deals - if any - and the results in past competitions would potentially have to be recaculated.
Could Rangers be stripped of past titles and trophies?
There is plenty of precedent for this kind of rule-breaking and subsequent punishment in sport.
In 1994, Marseille were found guilty of of financial irregularities and a match fixing scandal involving then president Bernard Tapie.
The club was forcably relegated to the French Second Division and lost their 1992-93 Division One title and the right to play in the Champions League in 1993-94, the 1993 European Super Cup and the 1993 Intercontinental Cup.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17310468
Now admittedly alleged side-contract deals at present, but who do you believe? A member of the board at the time who claims there WAS second contracts? or players from the time who if it is true, are not going to be too quick to admit it are they???
So in your opinion, the member of the board is definitely wrong,but the players are definitely telling the truth? ok, you must be right then.
The stripping of the titles is nothing to do with EBT's which is confusing some other people, but the second contracts, which if true is blatant cheating & would be deserved of titles stripped at a minimum!!!! But only alleged at the minute, lets hope the inquiry sorts it out.
Just one simple question back to you please, what is your opinion of the charity game reneging on the promised 60% of money from the game being awarded to the charity foundation, & only awarding 10% instead?..... Which is also under inquiry at present. |
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madride
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Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Rangers in crisis thread |
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You do realise it was the Rangers charity foundation who decided to change their percentage from 60 to 10 and the Milan charity agreed? Wasnt the club who changed their mind. If Rangers cease to exist the charity ceases to exist makes sense they want to help out. Wonder who raised the concerns in the first place?
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ThechipLeadV
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madride
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Rangers in crisis thread |
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That's the sort of attitude we're looking for Hibs fan as well but seems like a decent guy. Should come to a head in the next few days either way
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madride
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Rangers in crisis thread |
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3 confirmed bids then, Paul Murray's TBK, Brian Kennedy and a group from Chicago plus possibly another over the weekend. I know one of the guys that's part of Murray's consortium hope they're successful
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madride
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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Rangers in crisis thread |
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Nem
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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Rangers in crisis thread |
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madride
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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Rangers in crisis thread |
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Must've searched the archives to find that. Least it wasn't in our back yard 
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Indestructible
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Joined: 21 May 2005
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Rangers in crisis thread |
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Celtic for the cup  |
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madride
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Rangers in crisis thread |
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| Indestructible wrote: | | Celtic for the cup |
no big surprise they have plenty of previous for choking on the big occasion. Was never a penalty to be fair can't blame them for being upset although their equaliser was offside. Edinburgh derby should make for a good final first one since 1896
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Indestructible
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Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Rangers in crisis thread |
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Neil Lennon a horrible little man.  |
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madride
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:48 am
Post subject: Re: Rangers in crisis thread |
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| Indestructible wrote: | | Neil Lennon a horrible little man. |
Careful Indy you're not allowed to dislike poor, innocent, persecuted Neil or you'll be accused of being an anti-Irish bigot
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GIRUY
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Joined: 14 Feb 2012
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:51 am
Post subject: Re: Rangers in crisis thread |
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| madride wrote: | | Indestructible wrote: | | Neil Lennon a horrible little man. |
Careful Indy you're not allowed to dislike poor, innocent, persecuted Neil or you'll be accused of being an anti-Irish bigot |
Rangers in crisis thread???????
So Blue Knights running away also now? 
I'm surprised, I thought we didn't do walking away, after all, WE R RA PEEPIL!!!!!!!
Tick.....tock.....tick.....tock |
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