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You decide
Good Fold! 
56%
 56%  [ 13 ]
Bad Fold! 
21%
 21%  [ 5 ]
Scared Money! 
13%
 13%  [ 3 ]
None of the above 
8%
 8%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 23

7DeLuX
High Card


Joined: 18 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:25 am
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HU 4 rollz!!!

But seriously Dusty owns Smile
Chester A. Arthur
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Joined: 18 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:17 am
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Quote:
I am not perfect, but when I make a clearly tragic play, the last thing I am going to do is publicly defend it with some ridiculous reasons that were obviously untrue.


If Dusty said this then he needs to learn a lesson about running his mouth. Totally out of order. I wouldn't accept "it may have been a misunderstanding" by way of apology either. I'd knock the kid's block clean off. Dusty is lucky that Barny is a bigger man.
WeeBaws
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:19 am
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[x] In before Ban Mr. Green
Bogus
At Won with No 28


Joined: 01 May 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:20 am
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Chester A. Arthur wrote:
Quote:
I am not perfect, but when I make a clearly tragic play, the last thing I am going to do is publicly defend it with some ridiculous reasons that were obviously untrue.


If Dusty said this then he needs to learn a lesson about running his mouth. Totally out of order. I wouldn't accept "it may have been a misunderstanding" by way of apology either. I'd knock the kid's block clean off. Dusty is lucky that Barny is a bigger man.


Tumbleweed
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Whu4life
Straight Flush


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:39 pm
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WeeBaws wrote:
[x] In before Ban Mr. Green


You haven't done nothing wrong so far Wink Mr. Green
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robbie
Full House


Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 858

PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:59 pm
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Ive read through this thread again,and IMO its a really poor pass.

Why limp in in the first place if your not going to play the hand when you hit the flop hard ? did you want a 446 or 664 flop ?

I cant see any other player at that table passing in this situation.saying that,thats why im proberly playing 50/100 freezeouts and hes sitting down with 10k.
Barny
Mobster


Joined: 18 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:00 am
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There is a fascinating double standard in poker these days.
If someone costs themselves money by making a super-nitty fold, hitting a flop hard but then deciding they may well be behind anyway, they get burned at the stake. Words like 'weak' 'tragic' and 'pathetic' are invoked to ritually humiliate the offender.
But if someone costs themselves money by making a suicidal call or an insane bluff then it is 'so sick', they have heart, imagination and balls the size of coconuts.
But really what is the difference? A bad read is a bad read and a bad decision is a bad decision.
Perhaps the offence is having one foot in the real world and caring about the money.
We want our heroes to be millionaires one minute and busto the next, to take on the best players and put it all on the line. To exist in a world where money doesn't matter, only the game. And yet...
In poker you are out there on your own, in the moment, weighing up all sorts of information and trying to make the right choices. If you get it wrong it will cost you.
Now, in the artificial world of televised poker with walk on music, exit interviews and hysterical commentary we have the illusion that we are right there, living every moment with the heroes and villains of the game. But it is just that, an illusion. We are not there, and the commentators in their sound proof booth are not there. No one is there in your head, when the pressure is on, and you are distilling everything in your mind, trying not to make that one fateful error that will wipe out every good judgement and cost you...only you.
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jackinbeat
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:09 am
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Well said, it's something that maybe everyone misses a lot from their game, being able to lay down a big hand.

Respect
phatus
Quads


Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 1645

PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:10 am
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Joe The Elegance Beevers wrote:

Let's just pretend for a moment that Laak had limped with A4 or Qs4s in the spot and not AJ. Good fold or scared money?


Then most people would be saying what an awesome soul read he made. Rolling Eyes
Ironworks1
Flush


Joined: 19 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:13 am
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Barny wrote:
There is a fascinating double standard in poker these days.
If someone costs themselves money by making a super-nitty fold, hitting a flop hard but then deciding they may well be behind anyway, they get burned at the stake. Words like 'weak' 'tragic' and 'pathetic' are invoked to ritually humiliate the offender.
But if someone costs themselves money by making a suicidal call or an insane bluff then it is 'so sick', they have heart, imagination and balls the size of coconuts.
But really what is the difference? A bad read is a bad read and a bad decision is a bad decision.
Perhaps the offence is having one foot in the real world and caring about the money.
We want our heroes to be millionaires one minute and busto the next, to take on the best players and put it all on the line. To exist in a world where money doesn't matter, only the game. And yet...
In poker you are out there on your own, in the moment, weighing up all sorts of information and trying to make the right choices. If you get it wrong it will cost you.
Now, in the artificial world of televised poker with walk on music, exit interviews and hysterical commentary we have the illusion that we are right there, living every moment with the heroes and villains of the game. But it is just that, an illusion. We are not there, and the commentators in their sound proof booth are not there. No one is there in your head, when the pressure is on, and you are distilling everything in your mind, trying not to make that one fateful error that will wipe out every good judgement and cost you...only you.


Great post.
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Mark S.
Full House


Joined: 13 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:58 pm
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WOW!

I go away for the weekend and its all kicked off with contributions from other players at the game, the commentary team and the bloggers themselves.

All we need now is for the the cleaner to have his/her say and we have a full set of opinions.

All I said WAS...'Good Fold or Scared Money?'.

Lively debate as always and if anyone wants to front me 10k to sit in a televised poker game then I'll be happy to show them how I would deal with trip 4's by the time the turn card appeared. If no flush or straight evident then the money's in the pot! That's all I can say!

Would I be wrong and if so why?

Answers on a postcard please to:

Points Of View
BBC TV
London
W1A 4WW
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phatus
Quads


Joined: 31 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:06 pm
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Mark S. wrote:
if anyone wants to front me 10k


I think you might need to prove you're a winning player first.....
flaminglip
Flush


Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 679

PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:38 pm
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Mark S. wrote:
WOW!

I go away for the weekend and its all kicked off with contributions from other players at the game, the commentary team and the bloggers themselves.

All we need now is for the the cleaner to have his/her say and we have a full set of opinions.

All I said WAS...'Good Fold or Scared Money?'.

Lively debate as always and if anyone wants to front me 10k to sit in a televised poker game then I'll be happy to show them how I would deal with trip 4's by the time the turn card appeared. If no flush or straight evident then the money's in the pot! That's all I can say!

Would I be wrong and if so why?

Answers on a postcard please to:

Points Of View
BBC TV
London
W1A 4WW


You'd have had most of the 10k if you hadn't gone to Florida and lost most of it by not being able to beat a game that even you admitted was a very low standard.

I think the point is that you would have got your money in but not with the right reasoning "OMG I got trips, it's the nuts all-in, all-in, ALL-IN!!!".

Barny's thinking brought him to the wrong conclusion, but at least he was thinking about it. That's what makes him a winning player and you a significant loser - the ability to be able to think about the game (and about what hands an opponent might have, rather than just thinking about the hand you have).

Barny, I'd be interested to hear if/how the metagame considerations came into your decision. From what I hear you were able to make some steals after this hand due to your tight image - did the possibility of building a tight image for this reason have any bearing on your decision to fold?
darrensprengers
Misclick


Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 7519

PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:52 pm
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Barny wrote:
There is a fascinating double standard in poker these days.
If someone costs themselves money by making a super-nitty fold, hitting a flop hard but then deciding they may well be behind anyway, they get burned at the stake. Words like 'weak' 'tragic' and 'pathetic' are invoked to ritually humiliate the offender.
But if someone costs themselves money by making a suicidal call or an insane bluff then it is 'so sick', they have heart, imagination and balls the size of coconuts.
But really what is the difference? A bad read is a bad read and a bad decision is a bad decision.
Perhaps the offence is having one foot in the real world and caring about the money.
We want our heroes to be millionaires one minute and busto the next, to take on the best players and put it all on the line. To exist in a world where money doesn't matter, only the game. And yet...
In poker you are out there on your own, in the moment, weighing up all sorts of information and trying to make the right choices. If you get it wrong it will cost you.
Now, in the artificial world of televised poker with walk on music, exit interviews and hysterical commentary we have the illusion that we are right there, living every moment with the heroes and villains of the game. But it is just that, an illusion. We are not there, and the commentators in their sound proof booth are not there. No one is there in your head, when the pressure is on, and you are distilling everything in your mind, trying not to make that one fateful error that will wipe out every good judgement and cost you...only you.


This is a great post.

I would be interested what leatherass says about how to play the hand.

Personally i dont think a shove is great due to laaks probable range + his calling range. Would it be better to call to v-bet the river in position. How much do we pay of on the river vs laaks range if he bets out on blank river and obviously dangerous rivers. Do we v-raise all blanks 100%? Whats his blocker bet %? Obviously this may be down to barnys image at the table as to what laak will call.

Is the best option a value raise as laak is calling 100%(as opposed to shipping). I am not sure on this now as apparently he was playing very loose so may reshove(i will believe this when i see it tbh). Can you v-bet fold profitably on dangerous rivers. or even blank ones.

Does the fact its laak enter into it at all or does it come down to you have trips and ahead a vast amount of time. I still think with that board and a flat from barny that laak would check the turn with no flush draw.
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Mark S.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:10 pm
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We've had many views on this so now lets decide it once and for all...
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http://ukpokerukpoker.blogspot.com/ or
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**New** http://ukpoker-vendeep1.blogspot.com
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