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Poker Jon
Quads


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:47 pm
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Hi All,

This is a fairly typical situation I find myself in after the rebuy stage of an online tourney.

I suck at playing biggish stacks against another loose big stack earlyish in tourney's?

Villain has been catching everything - he will limp call with a wide range of suited connectors, mid pairs etc. He tends to call flop bets with any piece of it. He raises the flop 15% of the time.

He is running 43/17 across the tourney and 64/0 at this level!
I have been very solid maybe 20/12, something like that.

What is your move on the flop and why please?

gandalf55
Wizard


Joined: 28 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:17 pm
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From villain's name I assume he is a German. If this is so he will have hit the flop, just stands to reason, so fold! Cool Cool

That's got the flippant answer out of the way, anyway.
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peligruso
Full House


Joined: 01 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:22 pm
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Stick 4-5k out there and close your eyes and hope for a fold, also checking behind and seeing what he does on the turn is a safe option(think there is a case for both)

Only thing with that is he could be just bet the turn cos you checked the flop and your not gonna check it with jj qq kk or aa.

Just depends what you put him on, is he loose enough to call your re raise with aj aq, or he might have 88 99 1010 as isnt going anywhere.

So to sum up id just panic and type in the chat box before i cbet and say 'im not folding this hand punk'(i dont do that really i just think it)
Grumbledook
Royal Flush


Joined: 25 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:24 pm
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I get unstuck in these spots myself in tournaments, so will be interested to see responses from the tournament players

nasty looking flop though and you reason he will call a lot so cbetting doesn't seem sensible, ergo check and assess the turn
Pizzicato
Straight Flush


Joined: 24 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:46 pm
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I would likely be checking behind and re-evaluating on the turn.

Assuming no A or K on the turn if he checks to me again i would fire 4.5K regardless of the card. If he fires at me I just fold.

If A or K hits the turn and he checks I would bet 4.5K, if he fires I would flat.
allinsteve
Straight


Joined: 08 Feb 2007
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Location: N. Ireland

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:01 pm
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Pizzicato wrote:
I would likely be checking behind and re-evaluating on the turn.

Assuming no A or K on the turn if he checks to me again i would fire 4.5K regardless of the card. If he fires at me I just fold.

If A or K hits the turn and he checks I would bet 4.5K, if he fires I would flat.


Yeah same, this is prolly one of the worst flops imaginable for your hand, and from your description of this guy hes not gonna fold any piece of this flop to a cbet.
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The Reverend
In Rhythm


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:27 pm
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allinsteve wrote:
Pizzicato wrote:
I would likely be checking behind and re-evaluating on the turn.

Assuming no A or K on the turn if he checks to me again i would fire 4.5K regardless of the card. If he fires at me I just fold.

If A or K hits the turn and he checks I would bet 4.5K, if he fires I would flat.


Yeah same, this is prolly one of the worst flops imaginable for your hand, and from your description of this guy hes not gonna fold any piece of this flop to a cbet.


QFT - exceptionally ugly flop. Even if he's got a pair of twos he'll convince himself that you missed the flop and his hand is good. If he's so loose I'm not sure why you need to raise so much preflop. 2500 seems plenty, you know you can extract value on the flop if you hit your TPTK.
Poker Jon
Quads


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 1659

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:57 pm
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The Reverend wrote:



QFT - exceptionally ugly flop. Even if he's got a pair of twos he'll convince himself that you missed the flop and his hand is good. If he's so loose I'm not sure why you need to raise so much preflop. 2500 seems plenty, you know you can extract value on the flop if you hit your TPTK.


This deep I wantto make him pay to see a flop.

We can debate on PFR until the nth degree - I'm happy with a 6xBB raise this deep and with decent antes in.

Keep the thoughts coming guys and we can play this hand together.

I'll reveal the next piece tomorrow.

Jon
Poker Jon
Quads


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:16 pm
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OK

I checked the flop in this situation. I feel his range could well have hit the flop. Also I would expose myself to a perfect sized CRAI if I PSB the flop and could be pushed off the better hand if he has 9x in this situation, or a flush draw.

So, the turn absolutely bricks and he now donk bets into this flop!

How do you proceed further?

Grumbledook
Royal Flush


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:12 pm
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hardly a donk bet after you checked the flop oh and its the turn now not the flop lol ;p

it is a small bet, he could be trying to steal it cheap or trying a milking bet assuming you have nothing

if you call it though there is a fair chance he bets any river card that is T or lower

based on that you either gotta give up, or if you think he has nothing raise him
Poker Jon
Quads


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:22 pm
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Grumbledook wrote:


based on that you either gotta give up, or if you think he has nothing raise him


OK I see your point - exactly what went through my head.

What am I representing if I raise here?
Pizzicato
Straight Flush


Joined: 24 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:41 pm
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The only thing you could possibly represent on that board would be a set but to be quite honest I wouldn't be believing you myself.

Just fold the turn. You raised big and checked the flop. The most likely hand you have is the exact hand you are holding and its the exact hand any fish/muppet will put you on. The 3 is one of the biggest blanks in the deck so raising here would not put him to any kind of decision.

My guess is that he bet small hoping you would come over the top of him...
fubar
King of tilt


Joined: 18 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:24 pm
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I wouldnt like to represent anything on that board. I think it hits his calling range far to often and far to many draws., Its not like you have your tournement invested in the pot. Just give it up on the flop. Theres going to be far more better spots to make plays.
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Poker Jon
Quads


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:59 am
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Pizzicato wrote:
The only thing you could possibly represent on that board would be a set but to be quite honest I wouldn't be believing you myself.



Thanks for opinions so far.

Exactly - so I didn't think raising was an option. However, I felt it was weak to fold to such a small bet with such a blank turn hitting. I elected to call (which many people may disagree with).

This was the river - again, any thoughts, or am I looking at an insta fold here?

peligruso
Full House


Joined: 01 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:24 am
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The small bet on the turn doesn't make much sense if he had a big hand say a set because on that board id wanna bet at least 2/3s of the pot, although the bet on the river does look like a value bet but equally could be a steal.

The only hands that i can put him on are 99 or AQ or AsQs or possibly AK

Did you put him on AQ and make a hero call?
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