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Simon Galloway
Full House


Joined: 14 Sep 2003
Posts: 1016

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 2:45 pm
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Scenario:5 card Irish, I have A:diamonds: K:hearts: K:clubs: 8:diamonds: 7:clubs:

100 D/C, blinds 2 and 2, I am the "small blind", but the "2nd blind" as the blinds are on the button. I have approx 300 which is a standard stack.

12 total in the pot when it is my option, I send 10 around which gets called in 3 spots, the next person takes his chance to get 65 all-in. 1 caller behind, I call, another call and a couple of passes. Just a big enough pot to get all-in if I lead at the turn.

Flop comes K:diamonds: 10:hearts: 9:diamonds:

Question :- What do you discard??? And why??? Against 1 caller I wouldn't be posting, but with 2 callers it is more of a poser. Keep the set or assume that someone has straightened and therefore draw to my diamonds?

I would like peoples thoughts (and thought processes) but am happy to give my thoughts on request - I will explain how the hand unfolded later...

P.S For DY, Commie Boy et.al. you can imagine that the other players are Genghis Khan, Lenin and Musolini if that helps....
_________________
www.teammoshman.com
FFFC1
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 2:50 pm
Reply with quote
Unless I'm missing something I can't see why this is a dilemma. If someone has the straight, you have 9 outs with keeping the diamonds, or 7 outs rising to 10 on the river with the set. Almost exactly equal. But of course if no one has the straight you keep the set. KK it is.

FFFC1

--Previous Message--

: Scenario:5 card Irish, I have Ad Kh Kc 8d 7c
:
: 100 D/C, blinds 2 and 2, I am the "small blind", but the "2nd blind" as the
: blinds are on the button. I have approx 300 which is a standard stack.
:
: 12 total in the pot when it is my option, I send 10 around which gets called
: in 3 spots, the next person takes his chance to get 65 all-in. 1 caller
: behind, I call, another call and a couple of passes. Just a big enough pot to
: get all-in if I lead at the turn.
:
: Flop comes Kd 10h 9d
:
: Question :- What do you discard??? And why??? Against 1 caller I wouldn't be
: posting, but with 2 callers it is more of a poser. Keep the set or assume that
: someone has straightened and therefore draw to my diamonds?
:
: I would like peoples thoughts (and thought processes) but am happy to give my
: thoughts on request - I will explain how the hand unfolded later...
:
: P.S For DY, Commie Boy et.al. you can imagine that the other players are
: Genghis Khan, Lenin and Musolini if that helps....
Simon Galloway
Full House


Joined: 14 Sep 2003
Posts: 1016

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 3:06 pm
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
some of those house outs may well be in the third person's hand? I had to try and subjectively factor that in.

--Previous Message--

: Unless I'm missing something I can't see why this is a dilemma. If someone
: has the straight, you have 9 outs with keeping the diamonds, or 7 outs rising to
: 10 on the river with the set. Almost exactly equal. But of course if no one
: has the straight you keep the set. KK it is.
:
: FFFC1
:
: --Previous Message--
:
: : Scenario:5 card Irish, I have Ad Kh Kc 8d 7c
: :
: : 100 D/C, blinds 2 and 2, I am the "small blind", but the "2nd blind" as
: the
: : blinds are on the button. I have approx 300 which is a standard stack.
: :
: : 12 total in the pot when it is my option, I send 10 around which gets
: called
: : in 3 spots, the next person takes his chance to get 65 all-in. 1 caller
: : behind, I call, another call and a couple of passes. Just a big enough pot
: to
: : get all-in if I lead at the turn.
: :
: : Flop comes Kd 10h 9d
: :
: : Question :- What do you discard??? And why??? Against 1 caller I wouldn't
: be
: : posting, but with 2 callers it is more of a poser. Keep the set or assume
: that
: : someone has straightened and therefore draw to my diamonds?
: :
: : I would like peoples thoughts (and thought processes) but am happy to give
: my
: : thoughts on request - I will explain how the hand unfolded later...
: :
: : P.S For DY, Commie Boy et.al. you can imagine that the other players are
: : Genghis Khan, Lenin and Musolini if that helps....
_________________
www.teammoshman.com
Simon Galloway
Full House


Joined: 14 Sep 2003
Posts: 1016

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 3:08 pm
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
...and of course some of those diamonds aren't nut outs...

--Previous Message--

: some of those house outs may well be in the third person's hand? I had to try
: and subjectively factor that in.
:
: --Previous Message--
:
: : Unless I'm missing something I can't see why this is a dilemma. If someone
: : has the straight, you have 9 outs with keeping the diamonds, or 7 outs
: rising to
: : 10 on the river with the set. Almost exactly equal. But of course if no
: one
: : has the straight you keep the set. KK it is.
: :
: : FFFC1
: :
: : --Previous Message--
: :
: : : Scenario:5 card Irish, I have Ad Kh Kc 8d 7c
: : :
: : : 100 D/C, blinds 2 and 2, I am the "small blind", but the "2nd blind"
: as
: : the
: : : blinds are on the button. I have approx 300 which is a standard stack.
: : :
: : : 12 total in the pot when it is my option, I send 10 around which gets
: : called
: : : in 3 spots, the next person takes his chance to get 65 all-in. 1 caller
: : : behind, I call, another call and a couple of passes. Just a big enough
: pot
: : to
: : : get all-in if I lead at the turn.
: : :
: : : Flop comes Kd 10h 9d
: : :
: : : Question :- What do you discard??? And why??? Against 1 caller I
: wouldn't
: : be
: : : posting, but with 2 callers it is more of a poser. Keep the set or
: assume
: : that
: : : someone has straightened and therefore draw to my diamonds?
: : :
: : : I would like peoples thoughts (and thought processes) but am happy to
: give
: : my
: : : thoughts on request - I will explain how the hand unfolded later...
: : :
: : : P.S For DY, Commie Boy et.al. you can imagine that the other players are
: : : Genghis Khan, Lenin and Musolini if that helps....
_________________
www.teammoshman.com
Lit Crit
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 9:19 pm
Reply with quote
Depending of course on the stack sizes and characters of those left in the pot with you, have you considered keeping the set, calling along just as you would with the flush draw or the top set and then representing the nut flush (which you know they don't have) if the flush hits. If the opponents are nice and tight then you can have 16 effective outs! Your position first to speak is the main problem but if the flush comes then maybe bet 75-90 quid and hope the buggers fold... or are we faced with a typical UK cash game where the non-believers and gamblers rule the roost and someone last made a respectful fold sometime in about 1983, just before Omaha reached the Vic?

--Previous Message--

: ...and of course some of those diamonds aren't nut outs...
:
: --Previous Message--
:
: : some of those house outs may well be in the third person's hand? I had to
: try
: : and subjectively factor that in.
: :
: : --Previous Message--
: :
: : : Unless I'm missing something I can't see why this is a dilemma. If
: someone
: : : has the straight, you have 9 outs with keeping the diamonds, or 7 outs
: : rising to
: : : 10 on the river with the set. Almost exactly equal. But of course if no
: : one
: : : has the straight you keep the set. KK it is.
: : :
: : : FFFC1
: : :
: : : --Previous Message--
: : :
: : : : Scenario:5 card Irish, I have Ad Kh Kc 8d 7c
: : : :
: : : : 100 D/C, blinds 2 and 2, I am the "small blind", but the "2nd blind"
: : as
: : : the
: : : : blinds are on the button. I have approx 300 which is a standard
: stack.
: : : :
: : : : 12 total in the pot when it is my option, I send 10 around which gets
: : : called
: : : : in 3 spots, the next person takes his chance to get 65 all-in. 1
: caller
: : : : behind, I call, another call and a couple of passes. Just a big enough
: : pot
: : : to
: : : : get all-in if I lead at the turn.
: : : :
: : : : Flop comes Kd 10h 9d
: : : :
: : : : Question :- What do you discard??? And why??? Against 1 caller I
: : wouldn't
: : : be
: : : : posting, but with 2 callers it is more of a poser. Keep the set or
: : assume
: : : that
: : : : someone has straightened and therefore draw to my diamonds?
: : : :
: : : : I would like peoples thoughts (and thought processes) but am happy to
: : give
: : : my
: : : : thoughts on request - I will explain how the hand unfolded later...
: : : :
: : : : P.S For DY, Commie Boy et.al. you can imagine that the other players
: are
: : : : Genghis Khan, Lenin and Musolini if that helps....
The Hat
One Pair


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 2:04 am
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
Lit Crit is spot on (as ever), you keep the Kings, and can bet strongly should the flush arrive, because you would have played the diamond draw the same way. Again, as Lit Crit makes clear, this supposes an opponent could put down a weak flush to a big bet. But, ACHAB.

--Previous Message--

: Depending of course on the stack sizes and characters of those left in the pot
: with you, have you considered keeping the set, calling along just as you would
: with the flush draw or the top set and then representing the nut flush (which
: you know they don't have) if the flush hits. If the opponents are nice and
: tight then you can have 16 effective outs! Your position first to speak is the
: main problem but if the flush comes then maybe bet 75-90 quid and hope the
: buggers fold... or are we faced with a typical UK cash game where the
: non-believers and gamblers rule the roost and someone last made a respectful
: fold sometime in about 1983, just before Omaha reached the Vic?
:
: --Previous Message--
:
: : ...and of course some of those diamonds aren't nut outs...
: :
: : --Previous Message--
: :
: : : some of those house outs may well be in the third person's hand? I had
: to
: : try
: : : and subjectively factor that in.
: : :
: : : --Previous Message--
: : :
: : : : Unless I'm missing something I can't see why this is a dilemma. If
: : someone
: : : : has the straight, you have 9 outs with keeping the diamonds, or 7 outs
: : : rising to
: : : : 10 on the river with the set. Almost exactly equal. But of course if
: no
: : : one
: : : : has the straight you keep the set. KK it is.
: : : :
: : : : FFFC1
: : : :
: : : : --Previous Message--
: : : :
: : : : : Scenario:5 card Irish, I have Ad Kh Kc 8d 7c
: : : : :
: : : : : 100 D/C, blinds 2 and 2, I am the "small blind", but the "2nd
: blind"
: : : as
: : : : the
: : : : : blinds are on the button. I have approx 300 which is a standard
: : stack.
: : : : :
: : : : : 12 total in the pot when it is my option, I send 10 around which
: gets
: : : : called
: : : : : in 3 spots, the next person takes his chance to get 65 all-in. 1
: : caller
: : : : : behind, I call, another call and a couple of passes. Just a big
: enough
: : : pot
: : : : to
: : : : : get all-in if I lead at the turn.
: : : : :
: : : : : Flop comes Kd 10h 9d
: : : : :
: : : : : Question :- What do you discard??? And why??? Against 1 caller I
: : : wouldn't
: : : : be
: : : : : posting, but with 2 callers it is more of a poser. Keep the set or
: : : assume
: : : : that
: : : : : someone has straightened and therefore draw to my diamonds?
: : : : :
: : : : : I would like peoples thoughts (and thought processes) but am happy to
: : : give
: : : : my
: : : : : thoughts on request - I will explain how the hand unfolded later...
: : : : :
: : : : : P.S For DY, Commie Boy et.al. you can imagine that the other players
: : are
: : : : : Genghis Khan, Lenin and Musolini if that helps....
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