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tryinmybest
Two Pair


Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:17 am
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ThechipLeadV wrote:
Mr America wrote:
Guys we all saw how dumb the FCP forums are for considering every word Negreanu says as gospel, hopefully we are smart enough not to make the same mistake here. This is only one side of a story.


I was just about to make the same point - but couldn't think how to word it. People sign up to FCP and of course they are going to defend Daniel - as we would then defend the Mob (unless Taffer makes a return). My post wasn't intended to sound really fan-boyish towards Ram + The Mob - was just good to hear another side of the story.

None of us are never going to know exactly what went on on that course - hopefully this can be resolved privately between them and this won't continually get blown up, when it could easily have been a matter that could have stayed between 'friends'.

The guy lied to make money out off his friends. Sort it out privatley between your boot and his arse Ram.
mp3
the way I are


Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 1263
Location: bundy's gonna get you

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:19 am
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Neutral

Last edited by mp3 on Thu May 22, 2008 12:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
ThechipLeadV
Smart-Arse


Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 6276

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:20 am
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martypalin wrote:
Dont we have two sides of the story now? Ram's and Phils (channeled through Dan N)

Nothing more will come out I'm sure now.


There will be more
zebediah
Freed


Joined: 09 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:23 am
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I want to hear what Phil/Danny has to say about the fact Ram was only $34,000 up.
Is this a lie Phil???
Cos Danny's blog gives the impression that Ram had been continuously skinning Phil for a small fortune and gave Phil too big an edge out of greed to get yet more.

If Ram's statement is true, then Daniel is so out of order he should make a public apology.
Ask Phil if Ram is right about those figures Daniel...
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RobGibraltar
Out to Lunch


Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Posts: 7842
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:29 am
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It's good to hear an account which actually reads coherently and sounds like it makes sense. It's good to see some actual facts from one of the parties involved.

FCP seems to be comprised of mostly star-struck hero-worshipers although there do seem to be a few rational and reasonable people on there. I guess it may all boil down to weight of numbers.

Will be interesting to see DN's reply - and even more interesting to see Phil's reply.
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kennl
Straight


Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 321

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:35 am
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thanks for letting us hear your side of the story Ram.

I used to play a lot of golf and off a 12 handicap not the greatest but enjoyed it immensely and we always played for a 'small' wager - this was amongst friends and after having played the game for now 20 years plus i can honestly say that whilst playing amongst friends we have never ever tried it on with each other - thats just not the done thing - everyone knows it


PS - quality last paragraph!!!
burgeamon
Flush


Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 626

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:40 am
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quality quality post. And i think that last paragraph says it all. All the DN/Ivery fan boys are happy to shout 'U R TEH NOOB RAM, Pay him' but if they could relate to the situation im sure they'd turn around and say 'STFU NOOB!!!111ONE!1'.
balloo
Full House


Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 1195

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:44 am
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Ram

The part of this I dont really understand is why you would continue to play Ivey. You obviously did not need other American players to tell you how much he had improved as you saw it with your own eyes.

Would it have not made more sense to quit him unless you could decide a fairer handicap?
CarpeAnnum
Flush


Joined: 09 Oct 2005
Posts: 617

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:47 am
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balloo wrote:
Ram

The part of this I dont really understand is why you would continue to play Ivey. You obviously did not need other American players to tell you how much he had improved as you saw it with your own eyes.

Would it have not made more sense to quit him unless you could decide a fairer handicap?

I guess he trusted him and considered him a friend. He also asked him the Lindgren question and was happy with the answer.
balloo
Full House


Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 1195

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:48 am
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CarpeAnnum wrote:
balloo wrote:
Ram

The part of this I dont really understand is why you would continue to play Ivey. You obviously did not need other American players to tell you how much he had improved as you saw it with your own eyes.

Would it have not made more sense to quit him unless you could decide a fairer handicap?

I guess he trusted him and considered him a friend. He also asked him the Lindgren question and was happy with the answer.



When you are standing on a golf course with someone you know pretty quickly how good they are or how much they have improved.
The Reverend
In Rhythm


Joined: 27 Aug 2004
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Location: In Rhythm

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:53 am
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balloo wrote:
When you are standing on a golf course with someone you know pretty quickly how good they are or how much they have improved.


Eh? Ram already said they weren't playing at their best the first day, standard hustling tactic of course, then stepped up their play as the game went on.
zebediah
Freed


Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 5877

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:56 am
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He mentioned that Phil only started to show his true new ability on the second round, as he improved further than his improvement on the first round.
Remember they were adjusting handicaps after 18, Phil maximised his profits from his secret (at the time) improvement.

This going by Ram's statement being truthful of course. Which we have no reason to doubt.

I would love to see a similar statement from Ivey on his side, rather than a bunch of propaganda from a friend he can later say to be "a misunderstanding" if he wants to.
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zebediah
Freed


Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 5877

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:56 am
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doh rev lol
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andyexpat
Straight


Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 253

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:59 am
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In the States 'hustling' is considered respectable.
In England 'hustling' is considered cheating. You are basically conning someone out of their money by some underhanded means.
All the old Texans where hustlers and made their money by hook or crook. Look at Amerillo Slim, one of the biggest Hustlers in American history.
John Kocbek, Operator of the Korona Poker Club in Moscow, was telling me a story about Puggy Pearson celebrating his birthday (or anniversary)in Vegas. All the famous poker players were invited. The players took it in turns to go to the stage and tell everyone over the microphone how Puggy had hustled them - with great pride lol.

A handicap exists to create a level playing field and if the handicap is not correct then it becomes a very one sided competition. IMO Ram was 'hustled' by Phil Ivey because he deliberately deceived Ram about his handicap, therefore he cheated and should not be paid any money.
What happened to the 'honour and integrity' of poker players that Brunson writes about in SS1? They sound like a bunch of 'sheisters' to me !

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mattpoker
Straight


Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 284

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:12 am
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Surely both sites are doing the same?

It's a shame it was made so public in the first place.
A neutral mediator seems like a good idea and should be sorted. If everyone was discussing in Monte Carlo that it was wrong and that they should work out what the shots really should have been, doesn't that highlight the bet was wrong in the first place? So i'd have thought void.

Why don't poker players, if they're betting big amounts, have official handicaps?


Last edited by mattpoker on Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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