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David Young
Flush


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 684

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 6:40 pm
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This was one of the best feelings I've had in a while. I tried to be deceptive pre-flop, painted myself into a corner on the flop, missed all my straight draws and then find I was in front on the flop with middle pair and rubbish kickers!


Transcript for game #116955080 requested by DavidYoung
*********** # 1 **************
PokerStars Game #116955080: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2003/09/12 - 12:30:43 (EST)
Table 'Bootes' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: cool15 ($179.35 in chips)
Seat 2: B Nick ($102.80 in chips)
Seat 3: DavidYoung ($300.90 in chips)
Seat 4: hoomer1 ($72 in chips)
Seat 5: mazmaz ($710.40 in chips)
Seat 6: milly ($447.20 in chips)
Seat 7: Broke Style ($392 in chips)
Seat 8: janporsche ($105.10 in chips)
Seat 9: rounders3 ($250.20 in chips)
DavidYoung: posts small blind $2
hoomer1: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DavidYoung [8h Ts 7h 9c]
mazmaz: raises $10 to $14
milly: calls $14
Broke Style: folds
janporsche: folds
rounders3: folds
cool15: folds
B Nick: calls $14
DavidYoung: raises $22 to $36
hoomer1: folds
mazmaz: calls $22
milly: calls $22
B Nick: calls $22
*** FLOP *** [6s Tc Qs]
DavidYoung: bets $116
mazmaz: raises $377 to $493
milly: folds
B Nick: calls $66.80 and is all-in
DavidYoung: calls $148.90 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [6s Tc Qs] [3d]
*** RIVER *** [6s Tc Qs 3d] [Qc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
DavidYoung: shows [8h Ts 7h 9c] (two pair, Queens and Tens)
mazmaz: mucks hand
DavidYoung collected $396.20 from side pot
B Nick: mucks hand
DavidYoung collected $345.40 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $744.60 Main pot $345.40. Side pot $396.20. | Rake $3
Board [6s Tc Qs 3d Qc]
Seat 1: cool15 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: B Nick (button) mucked [Ks Jd Ah 3h] - two pair, Queens and Threes
Seat 3: DavidYoung (small blind) showed [8h Ts 7h 9c] and won ($741.60) with two pair, Queens and Tens
Seat 4: hoomer1 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: mazmaz mucked [7c 5s As 6c] - two pair, Queens and Sixes
Seat 6: milly folded on the Flop
Seat 7: Broke Style folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: janporsche folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: rounders3 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

If you have any questions, please contact us at support@pokerstars.com
_________________
"Where you and Dominic differ from me, David, is that I [b:1234567890][u:1234567890]do[/u:1234567890][/b:1234567890] believe in the Nanny State."

[i:1234567890]Victoria Coren explains her opposition to the liberalisation of super-casinos, while smoking.[/i:1234567890]
David Young
Flush


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 684

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 6:47 pm
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I'll try using the new suit symbols as an exercise:

My hand: 8:hearts: T:spades: 7:hearts: 9:clubs:

Board at the end: 6:spades: T:clubs: Q:spades: 3:diamonds: Q:clubs:

Other hands:

7:clubs: 5:spades: A:spades: 6:clubs:

K:spades: J:diamonds: A:hearts: 3:hearts:
_________________
"Where you and Dominic differ from me, David, is that I [b:1234567890][u:1234567890]do[/u:1234567890][/b:1234567890] believe in the Nanny State."

[i:1234567890]Victoria Coren explains her opposition to the liberalisation of super-casinos, while smoking.[/i:1234567890]
The Mob
Site Admin


Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Posts: 4498

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 6:49 pm
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Welcome to the new board Dave.

The card symbols can be seen by everyone but can only be posted by registered users.

--Previous Message--

: I'll try using the new suit symbols as an exercise:
:
: My hand: 8h Ts 7h 9c
:
: Board at the end: 6s Tc Qs 3d Qc
:
: Other hands:
:
: 7c 5s As 6c
:
: Ks Jd Ah 3h
BDD
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:58 pm
Reply with quote
And you play poker for a living?

No wonder you don't like to give advice.

gl

dave d

--Previous Message--

: This was one of the best feelings I've had in a while. I tried to be deceptive
: pre-flop, painted myself into a corner on the flop, missed all my straight draws
: and then find I was in front on the flop with middle pair and rubbish kickers!
:
:
: Transcript for game #116955080 requested by DavidYoung
: *********** # 1 **************
: PokerStars Game #116955080: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2003/09/12 - 12:30:43
: (EST)
: Table 'Bootes' Seat #2 is the button
: Seat 1: cool15 ($179.35 in chips)
: Seat 2: B Nick ($102.80 in chips)
: Seat 3: DavidYoung ($300.90 in chips)
: Seat 4: hoomer1 ($72 in chips)
: Seat 5: mazmaz ($710.40 in chips)
: Seat 6: milly ($447.20 in chips)
: Seat 7: Broke Style ($392 in chips)
: Seat 8: janporsche ($105.10 in chips)
: Seat 9: rounders3 ($250.20 in chips)
: DavidYoung: posts small blind $2
: hoomer1: posts big blind $4
: *** HOLE CARDS ***
: Dealt to DavidYoung [8h Ts 7h 9c]
: mazmaz: raises $10 to $14
: milly: calls $14
: Broke Style: folds
: janporsche: folds
: rounders3: folds
: cool15: folds
: B Nick: calls $14
: DavidYoung: raises $22 to $36
: hoomer1: folds
: mazmaz: calls $22
: milly: calls $22
: B Nick: calls $22
: *** FLOP *** [6s Tc Qs]
: DavidYoung: bets $116
: mazmaz: raises $377 to $493
: milly: folds
: B Nick: calls $66.80 and is all-in
: DavidYoung: calls $148.90 and is all-in
: *** TURN *** [6s Tc Qs] [3d]
: *** RIVER *** [6s Tc Qs 3d] [Qc]
: *** SHOW DOWN ***
: DavidYoung: shows [8h Ts 7h 9c] (two pair, Queens and Tens)
: mazmaz: mucks hand
: DavidYoung collected $396.20 from side pot
: B Nick: mucks hand
: DavidYoung collected $345.40 from main pot
: *** SUMMARY ***
: Total pot $744.60 Main pot $345.40. Side pot $396.20. | Rake $3
: Board [6s Tc Qs 3d Qc]
: Seat 1: cool15 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
: Seat 2: B Nick (button) mucked [Ks Jd Ah 3h] - two pair, Queens and Threes
: Seat 3: DavidYoung (small blind) showed [8h Ts 7h 9c] and won ($741.60) with
: two pair, Queens and Tens
: Seat 4: hoomer1 (big blind) folded before Flop
: Seat 5: mazmaz mucked [7c 5s As 6c] - two pair, Queens and Sixes
: Seat 6: milly folded on the Flop
: Seat 7: Broke Style folded before Flop (didn't bet)
: Seat 8: janporsche folded before Flop (didn't bet)
: Seat 9: rounders3 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
:
: If you have any questions, please contact us at support@pokerstars.com
Checkov
Royal Flush


Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Posts: 10111

PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:56 am
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"I was in front on the flop with middle pair and rubbish kickers!"

Although im not going to comment on the actual plays made at this time (its a bit late) surely you are a dog on the flop against the 7c 5s As 6c, (55%-45% i would say)
Against both hands on the flop you are an even bigger dog, ev of around 45% for 7c 5s As 6c, 30% for Ks Jd Ah 3h and 25% for your hand 8h Ts 7h 9c.
I apologise if my figures are wrong its a bit late
David Young
Flush


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 684

PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 3:44 am
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I make no claim to have covered myself in glory in this hand. I fell in love with the idea of putting in an out-of-position pre-flop re-raise with a hand other than aces for deception purposes. I don't have much on the flop but I thought that a bet might have a 50 per cent chance of dislodging the opponents.

My opponents' cards were in fact dealt FACE DOWN in the traditional manner, so I didn't know that I was facing the nut flush draw and a wrap.

Won't play this the same way every time.

DY
_________________
"Where you and Dominic differ from me, David, is that I [b:1234567890][u:1234567890]do[/u:1234567890][/b:1234567890] believe in the Nanny State."

[i:1234567890]Victoria Coren explains her opposition to the liberalisation of super-casinos, while smoking.[/i:1234567890]
Big Dave D
Straight


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:48 am
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: I make no claim to have covered myself in glory in this hand. I fell in love
: with the idea of putting in an out-of-position pre-flop re-raise with a hand
: other than aces for deception purposes.

Yum!

I don't have much on the flop but I
: thought that a bet might have a 50 per cent chance of dislodging the opponents.
:

Yum! Yum! You've pretended you have Aces and you bet into three opponents who clearly have high cards, from the action, on a flop that looks to have missed aces, and you think its 50% they will pass! Your maths needs some work.

dd


_________________
gambler381: i'm a lot more succesful against good players
David Young
Flush


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 684

PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 10:26 am
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Do you think I'd post a hand in which I thought I'd played well? Why would I do that?

I'm still puzzled by 'opponents who clearly have high cards, from the action'. Have you played Pokerstars PLO much?

DY

--Previous Message--

: : I make no claim to have covered myself in glory in this hand. I fell in
: love
: : with the idea of putting in an out-of-position pre-flop re-raise with a
: hand
: : other than aces for deception purposes.
:
: Yum!
:
: I don't have much on the flop but I
: : thought that a bet might have a 50 per cent chance of dislodging the
: opponents.
: :
:
: Yum! Yum! You've pretended you have Aces and you bet into three opponents who
: clearly have high cards, from the action, on a flop that looks to have missed
: aces, and you think its 50% they will pass! Your maths needs some work.
:
: dd
:
_________________
"Where you and Dominic differ from me, David, is that I [b:1234567890][u:1234567890]do[/u:1234567890][/b:1234567890] believe in the Nanny State."

[i:1234567890]Victoria Coren explains her opposition to the liberalisation of super-casinos, while smoking.[/i:1234567890]
Big Dave D
Straight


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 3:24 pm
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This is just like the Poker in Europe thread all over again isnt it?

Its one thing to be criticised for your social/political views, which are of course immutable and irrevocably correct, its another when its to do with Poker isnt it? In the course of this thread you have said that you played it ok, then not so good, then your opponents were dumb etc etc. Im not sure Poker is your forte.

Never mind.

dd
--Previous Message--

: Do you think I'd post a hand in which I thought I'd played well? Why would I
: do that?
:
: I'm still puzzled by 'opponents who clearly have high cards, from the action'.
: Have you played Pokerstars PLO much?
:
: DY
:
: --Previous Message--
:
: : : I make no claim to have covered myself in glory in this hand. I fell in
: : love
: : : with the idea of putting in an out-of-position pre-flop re-raise with a
: : hand
: : : other than aces for deception purposes.
: :
: : Yum!
: :
: : I don't have much on the flop but I
: : : thought that a bet might have a 50 per cent chance of dislodging the
: : opponents.
: : :
: :
: : Yum! Yum! You've pretended you have Aces and you bet into three opponents
: who
: : clearly have high cards, from the action, on a flop that looks to have
: missed
: : aces, and you think its 50% they will pass! Your maths needs some work.
: :
: : dd
: :


_________________
gambler381: i'm a lot more succesful against good players
David Young
Flush


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 684

PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 3:54 pm
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Where did I say that I'd played well? The bet on the flop is terrible for all the reasons you've given.

In fact I think I am a worse omaha player than I was a year ago. I'm getting really bored of it and should probably play less omaha and more hold'em online.

DY
_________________
"Where you and Dominic differ from me, David, is that I [b:1234567890][u:1234567890]do[/u:1234567890][/b:1234567890] believe in the Nanny State."

[i:1234567890]Victoria Coren explains her opposition to the liberalisation of super-casinos, while smoking.[/i:1234567890]
Primal thoughts
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:06 pm
Reply with quote
Okay let's all strip down and solve this in the Reed/Harris manner.

Omaha was invented to be boring. I can't remember the last time I gave 2 Irish proverbials about being outdrawn in Omaha. It's that lifeless. Maybe I just can't roll with the funky spirit jive doobrey behind the game.

Play 7 cs Hi/lo online. The 4th street seen percentage is around 90%. Although I'm preaching to the choir as usual.

--Previous Message--

: Where did I say that I'd played well? The bet on the flop is terrible for all
: the reasons you've given.
:
: In fact I think I am a worse omaha player than I was a year ago. I'm getting
: really bored of it and should probably play less omaha and more hold'em online.
:
: DY
ariston
Flush


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 513

PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:24 pm
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u got very lucky on this hand but imo u didnt play it that badly. i regularly raise or reraise on this type of hand because most people will then put me on aces and when i "miss" the flop they will pay me off. in a pot with multiway action i would prefer your hand to aces suited as it is likely at least one or 2 of the aces has already gone reducing the chances of catching a favourable flop for my aajt.i know dave adores his aaxx and finds it difficult to release his hand on the flop in question but i still like your hand on the flop. i must say i would probably have played the hand in a similar way to yourself postflop hoping to get rid of people who have completely missed and knowing even if i get called i have enough "outs" to the nuts or a probable winning str8. what does surprise me in this scenario is the fact the hand history shows the hands u were up against even though they folded.is this common? when i miss a monster draw i would prefer the opponent not to know my cards. i am glad i rarely play online if this is common as it must give u an edge in player profiling etc. i know for certain bigdd will disagree with my opinions on omaha but i consider it my strongest game and my records over the last 12 months confirm this.

--Previous Message--

: This was one of the best feelings I've had in a while. I tried to be deceptive
: pre-flop, painted myself into a corner on the flop, missed all my straight draws
: and then find I was in front on the flop with middle pair and rubbish kickers!
:
:
: Transcript for game #116955080 requested by DavidYoung
: *********** # 1 **************
: PokerStars Game #116955080: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2003/09/12 - 12:30:43
: (EST)
: Table 'Bootes' Seat #2 is the button
: Seat 1: cool15 ($179.35 in chips)
: Seat 2: B Nick ($102.80 in chips)
: Seat 3: DavidYoung ($300.90 in chips)
: Seat 4: hoomer1 ($72 in chips)
: Seat 5: mazmaz ($710.40 in chips)
: Seat 6: milly ($447.20 in chips)
: Seat 7: Broke Style ($392 in chips)
: Seat 8: janporsche ($105.10 in chips)
: Seat 9: rounders3 ($250.20 in chips)
: DavidYoung: posts small blind $2
: hoomer1: posts big blind $4
: *** HOLE CARDS ***
: Dealt to DavidYoung [8h Ts 7h 9c]
: mazmaz: raises $10 to $14
: milly: calls $14
: Broke Style: folds
: janporsche: folds
: rounders3: folds
: cool15: folds
: B Nick: calls $14
: DavidYoung: raises $22 to $36
: hoomer1: folds
: mazmaz: calls $22
: milly: calls $22
: B Nick: calls $22
: *** FLOP *** [6s Tc Qs]
: DavidYoung: bets $116
: mazmaz: raises $377 to $493
: milly: folds
: B Nick: calls $66.80 and is all-in
: DavidYoung: calls $148.90 and is all-in
: *** TURN *** [6s Tc Qs] [3d]
: *** RIVER *** [6s Tc Qs 3d] [Qc]
: *** SHOW DOWN ***
: DavidYoung: shows [8h Ts 7h 9c] (two pair, Queens and Tens)
: mazmaz: mucks hand
: DavidYoung collected $396.20 from side pot
: B Nick: mucks hand
: DavidYoung collected $345.40 from main pot
: *** SUMMARY ***
: Total pot $744.60 Main pot $345.40. Side pot $396.20. | Rake $3
: Board [6s Tc Qs 3d Qc]
: Seat 1: cool15 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
: Seat 2: B Nick (button) mucked [Ks Jd Ah 3h] - two pair, Queens and Threes
: Seat 3: DavidYoung (small blind) showed [8h Ts 7h 9c] and won ($741.60) with
: two pair, Queens and Tens
: Seat 4: hoomer1 (big blind) folded before Flop
: Seat 5: mazmaz mucked [7c 5s As 6c] - two pair, Queens and Sixes
: Seat 6: milly folded on the Flop
: Seat 7: Broke Style folded before Flop (didn't bet)
: Seat 8: janporsche folded before Flop (didn't bet)
: Seat 9: rounders3 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
:
: If you have any questions, please contact us at support@pokerstars.com
The Hat
One Pair


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:39 pm
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It's hard to take seriously the thoughts of a player who says that check-raising is bad play.

--Previous Message--

: : I make no claim to have covered myself in glory in this hand. I fell in
: love
: : with the idea of putting in an out-of-position pre-flop re-raise with a
: hand
: : other than aces for deception purposes.
:
: Yum!
:
: I don't have much on the flop but I
: : thought that a bet might have a 50 per cent chance of dislodging the
: opponents.
: :
:
: Yum! Yum! You've pretended you have Aces and you bet into three opponents who
: clearly have high cards, from the action, on a flop that looks to have missed
: aces, and you think its 50% they will pass! Your maths needs some work.
:
: dd
:

Post Edited (13/9/2003, 9:39 pm)
David Young
Flush


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 684

PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:42 pm
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I'm happy with the pre-flop re-raise. On the flop I must have thought that I was only betting into two people. That's what I recall thinking. I don't think I would have done it if I'd realised that there were three. It's one thing to think that 2 people will fold but it's 'optimistic' to think that three will drop. As it is, betting into two people is fairly reckless.

Separately,

I must stress that hand histories don't show the cards of people who have folded. Nobody has folded in this hand! What is confusing is the use of the words 'mucks hand' which means that they scuttled their cards on the showdown at the river AFTER I've shown mine.

In a live game you have the right to see the hands of all people who are still in at the end. It's rarely done as it poisons the atmosphere, but you have the right to check whether there was something fishy for example.

The fact that you can request hand histories easily in online poker makes it possible for players to refer anything suspicious to the site. I did this once when I saw someone make a strange raise pre-flop in limit hold'em that seemed to make sense at all except to build up the pot. I wrote to Roy Cooke who supervises Planet Poker and he wrote back later to say that while it did look strange, he didn't think that they were colluding having seen them both drawing to the same flush in other hands.

DY




u got very lucky on this hand but imo u didnt play it that badly. i regularly raise or reraise on this type of hand because most people will then put me on aces and when i "miss" the flop they will pay me off. in a pot with multiway
action i would prefer your hand to aces suited as it is likely at least one or 2 of the aces has already gone reducing the chances of catching a favourable flop for my aajt.i know dave adores his aaxx and finds it difficult to release his
: hand on the flop in question but i still like your hand on the flop. i must say
: i would probably have played the hand in a similar way to yourself postflop: hoping to get rid of people who have completely missed and knowing even if i get
: called i have enough "outs" to the nuts or a probable winning str8. what does
: surprise me in this scenario is the fact the hand history shows the hands u were
: up against even though they folded.is this common? when i miss a monster draw i: would prefer the opponent not to know my cards. i am glad i rarely play online
: if this is common as it must give u an edge in player profiling etc. i know for
: certain bigdd will disagree with my opinions on omaha but i consider it my
: strongest game and my records over the last 12 months confirm this.
:
: --Previous Message--
:
: : This was one of the best feelings I've had in a while. I tried to be
: deceptive
: : pre-flop, painted myself into a corner on the flop, missed all my straight
: draws
: : and then find I was in front on the flop with middle pair and rubbish
: kickers!
: :
: :
: : Transcript for game #116955080 requested by DavidYoung
: : *********** # 1 **************
: : PokerStars Game #116955080: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2003/09/12 -
: 12:30:43
: : (EST)
: : Table 'Bootes' Seat #2 is the button
: : Seat 1: cool15 ($179.35 in chips)
: : Seat 2: B Nick ($102.80 in chips)
: : Seat 3: DavidYoung ($300.90 in chips)
: : Seat 4: hoomer1 ($72 in chips)
: : Seat 5: mazmaz ($710.40 in chips)
: : Seat 6: milly ($447.20 in chips)
: : Seat 7: Broke Style ($392 in chips)
: : Seat 8: janporsche ($105.10 in chips)
: : Seat 9: rounders3 ($250.20 in chips)
: : DavidYoung: posts small blind $2
: : hoomer1: posts big blind $4
: : *** HOLE CARDS ***
: : Dealt to DavidYoung [8h Ts 7h 9c]
: : mazmaz: raises $10 to $14
: : milly: calls $14
: : Broke Style: folds
: : janporsche: folds
: : rounders3: folds
: : cool15: folds
: : B Nick: calls $14
: : DavidYoung: raises $22 to $36
: : hoomer1: folds
: : mazmaz: calls $22
: : milly: calls $22
: : B Nick: calls $22
: : *** FLOP *** [6s Tc Qs]
: : DavidYoung: bets $116
: : mazmaz: raises $377 to $493
: : milly: folds
: : B Nick: calls $66.80 and is all-in
: : DavidYoung: calls $148.90 and is all-in
: : *** TURN *** [6s Tc Qs] [3d]
: : *** RIVER *** [6s Tc Qs 3d] [Qc]
: : *** SHOW DOWN ***
: : DavidYoung: shows [8h Ts 7h 9c] (two pair, Queens and Tens)
: : mazmaz: mucks hand
: : DavidYoung collected $396.20 from side pot
: : B Nick: mucks hand
: : DavidYoung collected $345.40 from main pot
: : *** SUMMARY ***
: : Total pot $744.60 Main pot $345.40. Side pot $396.20. | Rake $3
: : Board [6s Tc Qs 3d Qc]
: : Seat 1: cool15 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
: : Seat 2: B Nick (button) mucked [Ks Jd Ah 3h] - two pair, Queens and Threes
: : Seat 3: DavidYoung (small blind) showed [8h Ts 7h 9c] and won ($741.60)
: with
: : two pair, Queens and Tens
: : Seat 4: hoomer1 (big blind) folded before Flop
: : Seat 5: mazmaz mucked [7c 5s As 6c] - two pair, Queens and Sixes
: : Seat 6: milly folded on the Flop
: : Seat 7: Broke Style folded before Flop (didn't bet)
: : Seat 8: janporsche folded before Flop (didn't bet)
: : Seat 9: rounders3 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
: :
: : If you have any questions, please contact us at support@pokerstars.com
_________________
"Where you and Dominic differ from me, David, is that I [b:1234567890][u:1234567890]do[/u:1234567890][/b:1234567890] believe in the Nanny State."

[i:1234567890]Victoria Coren explains her opposition to the liberalisation of super-casinos, while smoking.[/i:1234567890]
David Young
Flush


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 684

PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:47 pm
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Oops. I missed something out. I should have said:

I did this once when I saw someone make a strange raise pre-flop in limit hold'em that seemed to make NO sense at all except to build up the pot FOR ANOTHER PLAYER WHO HAD KINGS.

In that hand someone made a pre-flop 'limp-raise' with 10\8s when the button had raised with KK.
_________________
"Where you and Dominic differ from me, David, is that I [b:1234567890][u:1234567890]do[/u:1234567890][/b:1234567890] believe in the Nanny State."

[i:1234567890]Victoria Coren explains her opposition to the liberalisation of super-casinos, while smoking.[/i:1234567890]
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