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Jon MW
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:31 am
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codeman77 wrote:
... Fact is each country has a vast different culture. The US has more races, more diverse cultures than any other country in the world. Also I believe the biggest problem in the US reguarding crime is drugs.


So you're saying that the massively higher rate of gun deaths is down to Americans being more murderous than other countries?
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Alex B
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:27 am
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You can't measure the effect of legal firearms using a gun-deaths statistic, you need to look at the overall murder rate.
evelyn
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:46 am
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Alex B wrote:
You can't measure the effect of legal firearms using a gun-deaths statistic, you need to look at the overall murder rate.


The US homicide rate is four times that in the UK.
Jon MW
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:47 am
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Alex B wrote:
You can't measure the effect of legal firearms using a gun-deaths statistic, you need to look at the overall murder rate.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_...nal_homicide_rate

About 4 times the rate of the UK on overall 'intentional homicide'


Any of the statistics are problematic, for example, stricter gun laws can be as a result of higher levels of gun crimes. So any correlation between gun crime and gun control isn't necessarily going to highlight which is the cause and which is the effect.

But having read a bit about some other countries having similar levels of access to weaponry without similar levels of gun crime I'm more and more inclined to believe that the problem with Americans and guns is more down to the 'Americans' part rather than the 'guns' part.
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evelyn
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:12 pm
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Jon MW wrote:
But having read a bit about some other countries having similar levels of access to weaponry without similar levels of gun crime I'm more and more inclined to believe that the problem with Americans and guns is more down to the 'Americans' part rather than the 'guns' part.


It is down to the perception of what the guns are for. Switzerland was mentioned up thread but there is no standing army there so all the men are military trained and they are expected to resist foreign attackers. The men all have rifles at home but it is an offence to carry weapons in public without a permit. In the US the guns are perceived as being to defend oneself and one's property from criminals. That's quite different. I have no doubt that if we adopted US gun laws in the UK then the homicide rate would increase here as well.
codeman77
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:21 pm
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Jon MW wrote:
So you're saying that the massively higher rate of gun deaths is down to Americans being more murderous than other countries?
codeman77 wrote:
... Fact is each country has a vast different culture. The US has more races, more diverse cultures than any other country in the world. Also I believe the biggest problem in the US reguarding crime is drugs.


So you're saying that the massively higher rate of gun deaths is down to Americans being more murderous than other countries?






Now I think you're just trolling. I told you why I think our crime rate is what it is, but you toatly ignore that and make up some off the wall bs.

Fact is America's not the most murderous country, South Africa is, but once again country by country compairisons are not good for this topic.


Bottom line, more gun laws only affect people who obey the law, hindering them to protect themselfs and others, and we should rely on ourselfs for protection rather than the government.


Jon MW wrote:
But having read a bit about some other countries having similar levels of access to weaponry without similar levels of gun crime I'm more and more inclined to believe that the problem with Americans and guns is more down to the 'Americans' part rather than the 'guns' part.
Alex B wrote:
You can't measure the effect of legal firearms using a gun-deaths statistic, you need to look at the overall murder rate.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_...nal_homicide_rate

About 4 times the rate of the UK on overall 'intentional homicide'


Any of the statistics are problematic, for example, stricter gun laws can be as a result of higher levels of gun crimes. So any correlation between gun crime and gun control isn't necessarily going to highlight which is the cause and which is the effect.

But having read a bit about some other countries having similar levels of access to weaponry without similar levels of gun crime I'm more and more inclined to believe that the problem with Americans and guns is more down to the 'Americans' part rather than the 'guns' part.

Well at least you admit guns are not the problem.


Grumbledook
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:27 pm
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I don't feel at all hindered in protecting myself whilst not owning a gun
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:20 pm
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http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/07/25...old-son-shot-him/
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PokerSensation
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:50 pm
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Simply outstanding from Michael Savage on the Colorado Killer:


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PokerZ
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:57 am
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evelyn wrote:
Jon MW wrote:
But having read a bit about some other countries having similar levels of access to weaponry without similar levels of gun crime I'm more and more inclined to believe that the problem with Americans and guns is more down to the 'Americans' part rather than the 'guns' part.


It is down to the perception of what the guns are for. Switzerland was mentioned up thread but there is no standing army there so all the men are military trained and they are expected to resist foreign attackers. The men all have rifles at home but it is an offence to carry weapons in public without a permit. In the US the guns are perceived as being to defend oneself and one's property from criminals. That's quite different. I have no doubt that if we adopted US gun laws in the UK then the homicide rate would increase here as well.


I agree that people purchase guns for the purpose of defending themselves or their property. I have seen people carry guns on the road. Soe even modifies their truck parts like under-the-seat storage for the gun they own. It is okay to carry a gun as long as you have the permit.
nitanitoa
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:21 am
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In Canada we actually have more guns per capita than the US, however, gun homicides and gun crime is just a fraction of what it is in the US. So it's not the guns but rather the cultural aspects of guns that are the problem. In Canada guns are for target or gun game shooting - that's why they are bought, in the US too many are purchased for 'self defence or worse for intended crime'.
You can try all you want with various forms of gun control, nothing will change until the culture changes - that is a difficult task.
If you want a view on this subject watch 'Bowling for Columbine', Michael Moore's film dealing with this very subject. Parts of that were filmed in my home town of Sarnia, Ontario.
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