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NickSilas
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Joined: 23 Dec 2014
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:44 pm
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Hello everyone.

I would be very grateful if someone could help me and tell me if the ruling I got last Sunday playing a live tournament, was correct or not. It was a very unfortunate incident.

The situation: 18 players left, blinds 12,000-24,000. I was the third biggest stack at the table with 255,000 chips but there were no big gaps between the other 8 players . (chip leader: 300k aprox, short stack:190k).

The action preflop was as follows: the guy UTG called and the the next 2 players fold, then the guy in the 6th seat makes a raise to 74K, Im next to him and when I look at my cards and see my pocket Kings, I put some chips on top of my cards, and thought I had to re-raise and maybe end everything there, so I piled up my chips and said loudly: I RE RAISE TO 174 THOUSAND. And pushed the 174k stack to the front of the table.

Unfortunately both of my cards were pressed below the tower of chips I moved to the front, and they moved with the stack to the front as I pushed. Inmediately the player who made the raise to 74K said my hand was dead, and the dealer said it was dead indeed.
I called the supervisor,I told him to look at my cards (which he did) and after a 15-minutes argument, he said my hand was dead and my 174k chips had to stay in the pot. The players in my table were silent but 2 of them said it was a good ruling ( of coursethey want to eliminate a player).
The player in the 6th seat had pocket 9s. I was left with 80K chips but was so angry I left the table .

I want to learn and move on. Was my hand dead indeed or was it a bad ruling?

Thanks in advance.
Lucster
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Joined: 21 Jan 2015
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:50 am
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Sounds like some straight up BS.. If it didn't hit the muck then why is it folded smh.. I'd be heated too specially when he would of told me my chips stay in the pot but my cards don't
hachi
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Joined: 18 Oct 2013
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:00 pm
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That's really nasty. The ruling that you're hand is dead is correct but unnecessarily nasty, I've seen tournament directors overrule that one on grounds of common sense before, and I think that should be the case. As for your chips having to stay in the pot, that is downright absurd, as soon as your hand is dead you shouldn't be able to put in any chips in the pot, even simultaneously. I would have been furious to be honest. Where was the tournament?
hachi
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Joined: 18 Oct 2013
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:00 pm
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That's really nasty. The ruling that you're hand is dead is correct but unnecessarily nasty, I've seen tournament directors overrule that one on grounds of common sense before, and I think that should be the case. As for your chips having to stay in the pot, that is downright absurd, as soon as your hand is dead you shouldn't be able to put in any chips in the pot, even simultaneously. I would have been furious to be honest. Where was the tournament?
Jim Manlove
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Joined: 03 Jan 2015
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:58 pm
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The ruling is incorrect. There are two actions involved in killing a hand. 1:Fold 2:Muck. A hand is only dead when it is mucked. You will often hear other players cry "His hand is mucked" when someone has folded. It isnt. Its mucked when the hand goes in the muck, normally by the dealer. Folding is the action of releasing your hand. Cards stuck to the bottom of your chips, in a forward motion, is not a fold. You simply pick up your hand and protect it from the dealer. Rulings by inexperienced TDs can be influenced by vocal players and maybe you were a victim of that. If the TD had been confident in the ruling, it wouldn't have taken 15 minutes. A similar scenario is where the hand is exposed by the player, for example when assuming all other players have folded. "His hand is dead!" goes out the cry. Exposing your hand is against the rules, but your hand is never killed. Folding is an intentional action. However, this is a ruling you can expect often. There are also circumstances where cards can be retreived from the muck.
Chris O'Brien
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Joined: 14 Nov 2015
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:23 am
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In the party poker premier league a few years ago phil laak would put a stack of chips on his cards and to be funny or annoying slide the cards forward wait a few seconds then either snap his cards back forcefully or tank and then fold. Never once was his hand dead. This ruling is unjust BS IMO
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