View previous topic :: View next topic  
Frodge
Trips


Joined: 19 Oct 2011
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:54 pm
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote


I didn't think it was obvious that I had a Q and therefore he could've been shoving with AK, AJ, A10 or maybe KK.

I was concerned but felt I had to call. I would've been short stacked if I hadn't.

Would appreciate any feedback.
darrensprengers
Misclick


Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 7551

PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:45 pm
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
i would have probably folded preflop as Q9 does not play well against early position raises.

Having said that i think that, how you played the hand, he must have a Q or 88, AA etc.
Whether i have to the discipline to fold given stack sizes is another matter.
In isolation and the chips not being mine i think the vast majority of his Ax range call the river.
The vb is a very polarizing bet that will get called by Ax a huge %.

to add a bluff range you would need to add in a few of his stats. in general i dont think you can ever say a random is bluffing there. they might think their AK is good but unless you have some river bluff history i guess its a check call or bet-sigh fold. To be honest if you are getting a merge ranged bluff on the river then he is probably a strong enough player to not get involved with Q9 oop to be honest.

stack sizes do come into it and i would be interested in what pizzi, bergeroo, tripaces etc think on this one as they are more tournament specialists.
Frodge
Trips


Joined: 19 Oct 2011
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:36 pm
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
darrensprengers wrote:
i would have probably folded preflop as Q9 does not play well against early position raises.

Having said that i think that, how you played the hand, he must have a Q or 88, AA etc.
Whether i have to the discipline to fold given stack sizes is another matter.
In isolation and the chips not being mine i think the vast majority of his Ax range call the river.
The vb is a very polarizing bet that will get called by Ax a huge %.

to add a bluff range you would need to add in a few of his stats. in general i dont think you can ever say a random is bluffing there. they might think their AK is good but unless you have some river bluff history i guess its a check call or bet-sigh fold. To be honest if you are getting a merge ranged bluff on the river then he is probably a strong enough player to not get involved with Q9 oop to be honest.

stack sizes do come into it and i would be interested in what pizzi, bergeroo, tripaces etc think on this one as they are more tournament specialists.


Thanks Darren. I called preflop because I felt I was priced in.

Regarding stacks, if I'd folded I would have been left with 20 BBs but I would've had less than half the average tournament stack at that point. It was the tourn average that was in my mind when I called the shove, I remember checking what it was and it went into my decision making. After sleeping on it I think I was just looking for a reason to call and was also a bit frustrated because I'd been playing for 3 hours+ and had only ever got up to 2.5 times my original starting stack. I'd seen others playing wildly and prospering.

It never occurred to me that he had a full house (up to the river) because I thought he would've raised the turn if he had (to prevent any Q hands from filling up). I did not put him on AA at all as I thought he would bet the flop as most players seem to with AA, whatever the flop is.

When he went all in I thought he may have had KQ/QJ or he had a big Ace and was trying to bully me into folding a non-Q, Ax hand. I talked myself into thinking that if he had a big Q then he wouldn't have risked losing value by going all-in and would have made a raise that I would've been obliged to call. Same goes for him having 77.

I'd seen players with large stacks shove the river without the nuts or near nuts several times that night and been called by shorter stacks. This influenced me. The big stack bullying seems to go on a fair bit.

On reflection i should've folded and worked with the 20 BBs. I think I was looking for reasons to call and was frustrated and maybe a bit tired also. I think the villain played the hand well and fooled me. It was a difficult spot though but maybe a better player would've played the hand differently or not at all, as you suggest.
JohnnySeaBet
Trips


Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 119
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:53 pm
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
darrensprengers wrote:
i would have probably folded preflop as Q9 does not play well against early position raises.

Having said that i think that, how you played the hand, he must have a Q or 88, AA etc.
Whether i have to the discipline to fold given stack sizes is another matter.
In isolation and the chips not being mine i think the vast majority of his Ax range call the river.
The vb is a very polarizing bet that will get called by Ax a huge %.

to add a bluff range you would need to add in a few of his stats. in general i dont think you can ever say a random is bluffing there. they might think their AK is good but unless you have some river bluff history i guess its a check call or bet-sigh fold. To be honest if you are getting a merge ranged bluff on the river then he is probably a strong enough player to not get involved with Q9 oop to be honest.

stack sizes do come into it and i would be interested in what pizzi, bergeroo, tripaces etc think on this one as they are more tournament specialists.


great response! tks
_________________
Two donks don't make it right
richardjinx
One Pair


Joined: 04 Oct 2012
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:11 am
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
"I was concerned but felt I had to call."



Firstly no one 'has' to call any bet or raise, if you think you're beat on the river fold.

"I would've been short stacked if I hadn't."

Folding = short stack; calling = exit. Being short stacked is never great but you can still win or cash from there, you can't win when you're driving up the motorway. You could only beat a bluff and most people don't bluff there.
Once Bitten Twice Shy
One Pair


Joined: 19 Aug 2014
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:28 am
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
Call preflop is fine imo your getting 3.5/1 so folding is "meh" postflop the money goes in not much you can do. Folding is also ok preflop Q9 as sprengers says plays poor vs a raise , folding preflop is probably very correct but im more of a cash game player so take what i say with a pinch of salt.
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Hendon Mob Forum Index -> Hand Analysis All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum