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elsie62
High Card


Joined: 30 Nov 2013
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:30 pm
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Down to the last 4 in a comp, I have 30bb, big stack 70bb, 2 short stacks with 8bb. big stack raises utg, I am on the button with kj spades and flat call, the short stacks fold, and the flop is kj2, big stack bets I shove and we get it all in, he tables ak and hits an ace on the turn. I believe the mistake was pre flop, and I should have folded. What are your thoughts
DropTheHammer
Straight Flush


Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 3019
Location: @Phill_555

PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:06 pm
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Hi, welcome to the forum!

It depends on how much he raised preflop really. If it was 2-3big blinds then a call is fine IMO. If it was to 8big blinds then I would veer towards a fold.

Try not to be results orientated (unless his preflop raise was huge) you got most of your chips in good, which is what matters.

If the pay jumps really meant a lot to you then just fold preflop to avoid tangling with the only stack that can knock you out.
elsie62
High Card


Joined: 30 Nov 2013
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:04 pm
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Thnx ICM was what I thought
Pizzicato
Straight Flush


Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 3266

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:59 am
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If your calling pre just never fold this flop. If your not willing to get it in for personal reasons aside from the game itself then just fold pre and never breathe a word to anyone

That being said I dont really agree with just shoving over his bet unless they are both overbets and completely ridiculous.

Assuming 2.5x raise and call and both 8bb stacks folding there is 6.5bb in the pot and assuming a 3bb lead there will be 9bb in the pot and you are shoving 27.5bb which is a pretty large overbet and skews the range of alot of hands that everyone auto calls it off with making it far stronger. If we are never folding anyway we should be encouraging the weaker parts of their range to think about coming along or shoving as semi bluffs I personally would prefer a raise to 7.5x- 8x in that position because all the hands that are calling us will shove anyway and this way we can widen the range to more AJ, KQ, KT,QT, 45o combos than might otherwise be present. Certain dynamics I like the shove but they are very specific and not usual in the slightest unless you are by far the most aggressive which given the fact your even asking this question means your probably not if that makes sense.

If he min raises and bets 2bb on flop then I would probably make it 5.7ish though if he 3.5x and 10x it I would probably just call with the intention of calling shove on turn cos he either has what he thinks is a big hand in this situation and wants to get it in or he thinks you will have some weird hand that he probably has anyway as he is obviously a lunatic.

The dynamics change on flush draw boards though a little bit but i really gotta go bed lol
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