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penko910
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:05 pm
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Anyone else in Aus for this match, I know some lads on here have been out for the ashes in the past, could meet up for a beverage if you are (Blatent Brag Post Smile)
Indestructible
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:07 pm
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Nice work, enjoy.

Beer
TheBlueBoy
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:58 am
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Just discussing it with the lads at the quiz, depending on the euro tomorrow, we will be there. And very nice brag sir.
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MFCMark00
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:20 pm
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Sick brag, Boxing Day test is definitely on the 'to do' list
penko910
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:21 am
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Well that was a nightmare of a day! Gifted them our wickets!
ReggieK
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:49 pm
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Cook
Carberry
Bell
KP
Root
Stokes
Prior
Broad
Swann
Bresnan
Anderson

Still not a huge fan of this team, Bear Trott leaving does leave a big hole.
Bell though should go no3. He's 31 now so experienced enough to make it his own at last.
I drop Tremlett, he's gone to an 80mph trundler.
Bringing Stokes in gives us a 5 man attack which I think is needed in Oz.
Bairstow I'm not convinced with, and Gary Ballance can't bowl so he misses out for me.

Problem I see with our team is we're aging.
Lots of 30 years + in there, weirdly the Aussie 30 year olds seem to get better and better, ours just decline for some reason.

Can't see us winning this series at all, I think it could be Swanns last (his Swann-song?), could even be Priors last unless he finds some batting form.
Andy Flower I think may well resign afterwards if we get beat heavily too.

Summer 2014 could see a brand new England team..
tjm8
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:26 pm
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Some massive decisions are needed now, my thoughts are that Stokes is not a good enough batsman to be in at 6, especially with Prior in such bad form with the bat. I think the team is struggling in too many areas to risk Stokes.

A fully fit Bresnan is a must for me as well, very underrated bowler and a useful batsman who can play 8, leaving Swann, Broad and Anderson for 9,10 &11. The problem is whether he can really be 100% and is he being rushed back?

England (since Flintoff retired), have survived on 4 bowlers, because in Swann, Anderson & Broad, we have had 3 genuine world class bowlers. Problem is that Swann is not going to take that many wickets in Oz (wickets deliberately prepared to not suit him). The wickets should suit Finn and Rankin, but I was shocked to see Tremlett picked ahead of them (his pace has dropped from the last time he was in Oz). Whilst Anderson is a brilliant bowler, the Aussie ball, doesn't swing much after the first 10 or so overs, so that negates some of his effectiveness, which leaves Broad as the guy who will probably take most wickets over there.

You could almost justify dropping Swann, going with 4 pace men and asking Root & KP to twiddle a few overs if required, would be a massive call to make, but the selectors may consider it.

I am a massive fan of Ian Bell, think he is a great batsman, but....I don't think he is the best starter against a new ball, so I would prefer to leave him at no.5 (having KP and him 4 & 5, makes our middle order really solid).

Do you play Joe Root at 3 or 6 ?? If Nick Compton was in the squad, I would play him at 3 and Root at 6. If Eoin Morgan was in the squad, I would put Root at 3 and Eoin at 6 (he is a fighter and someone who I wouldn't mind out there after what just happened in the 1st test).

I am not convinced that Bairstow either, he never looks like he can bat for a sustained period.

For me, Balance was one of the form batsman of the last year, so I wouldn't argue if he was put in at 6.

So after all that waffle, I don't know what I would do, never mind what the selectors should do.
ReggieK
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:49 pm
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I agree, Stokes not really a no.6. A couple of years ago I'd have said Prior at 6, but his batting has rapidly declined.
Debut to Ballance in the heat of an Ashes battle? Brave call if so, at least if Stokes buggers up his batting he can turn it round with some wickets.

The other form batsman this summer and he's out in Oz at the mo is my team Worcs Moeen Ali, but again I'm not convinced.
I did think Compton was dealt a rough hand when he got dropped too.

It's the way we've gone about things since Cook took over which concerns me.
Very very slow batting with a protect your wicket at all cost mentality, which is good in some ways but the run rate drops to nothing and you can easily end up 20/2 after 20 overs if you're not careful.

I said on another cricket forum that it was a huge error the selectors not taking Onions out there, as in Tremlett, Rankin and Finn we have 3 very similar bowlers.
Onions again had a brilliant season with Durham and his skiddy accuracy I think would be better suited in Oz.
Our plan of blasting them out supposedly with the big guys has been woefully found out after one test after all
tjm8
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:04 am
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It does make for a fascinating series now, I personally think England are still a top side with enough good players to win the series, but our key men really do have to perform now and help the inexperienced guys out. Batting wise, we need Cook, KP and Bell to all hit top form and start scoring heavy again. We need to go back to being a side which scores +400 innings and not been so heavily reliant on the bowlers and we need Prior to become the backbone who holds the lower order together again.

It does concern me that in Harris & Johnson, they have two bowlers who can blow our lower order away, so it is critical that the top order don't chuck their wickets away. Hopefully the 'he bowls to the left, he bowls to the right' song will get plenty of airing from now on by the Barmy Army.

I totally agree with the point that England's scoring rate has declined in the recent year, but I think that was mostly due to the having a Cook, Root, Trott up front and Root especially struggled to score against the new ball. Added to opposition teams working out Trott a little and limiting his scoring shots.

Cook is a natural low risk taker in his shot selection and ideally he is the anchor for the team around him. It will be interesting if Carberry can take some of the pressure of Cook and score at a decent rate to allow Cook to play himself back into form.

The openers need to bat smart vs. Oz, see of the new ball pairing and as the ball gets softer from overs 15 to 80, there should be runs to be made at a good rate. Getting to the 2nd new ball at 280/3, sets up the team for getting to 400 (standard aim for any team batting IMO)

Big issue for me is that we now get stuck into the Aussies, we look to have a few too many 'quiet' players out on the field and the likes of KP, Prior, Broad and Anderson who are happy to mouth off need some more backing. I think that is one of the big reasons for getting Bresnan back in.

Loved the incident when Anderson, Clarke, Warner, Bailey etc. were all at it at the end of the first test and can't wait for more 'hard' cricket. Pissed myself laughing that Shane Warne was whining that the stump mic was not live for the part where Jimmy threatened to break Bailey's nose and only Clarke was caught out.

One of the things I miss most about my cricketing days is the sledging sessions with our opponents, was always fun seeing just how far you could go before the umpire finally said "ok chaps that's far enough"
the shiver
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:02 am
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Ive got a question...this whole trott issue
Dont get me wrong, if the man has genuine mental health issues then my thoughts are with him
I just dont get both sides of it tho...
If this man was a solid professional and u knew this was underlying...would u sign up for a 6 month cauldron of an ashes tour and think...Ill see how it goes????
Does he fly home if he makes a ton?
If he does have mental health issues, how could they take him knowing hes "weak" in that department?
I mean surely he knew the sledging and banter would be flying?
Secondly..surely his employers, squad pickers, skipper had previous knowledge before they took him?
If not doesn't that make the situation even more atrocious?


Its like a formula one driver saying..."my right ankle has a tendency to lock up"
"Give it 6 laps if it feels ok...see it through"

Just screams amateur'ish by both parties player and selectors
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It was one of the privileges of my poker life to watch Barny win his bracelet, putting on a master class in front of an audience who would have run onto the stage and carried him over the ****ing line if thats what it was going to take. There is bracelets and there is bracelets. This was one of the very special ones...Padraig Parkinson
ReggieK
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:09 am
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He's been like it since he first played test cricket
He scratches his mark, shuffles his pads, does his gloves, all to get out the mental thoughts of turmoil and failure.
I always thought he was a timebomb waiting to go off, purely by how uptight he's always been.

No matter what anyone says, I still think Warners comments got to him a hell of a lot more than they're letting on
tjm8
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:22 pm
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Re. Trott, I don't know about his personal circumstance, but reading Marcus Trescothick's book a few years ago was a real eye opener. Reading how he suffered in silence for years and was able to hide his illness from his closest friends was pretty shocking.

As for him signing up to the tour and hiding it from the management, yes I can believe this. No one wants to ever show weakness, especially at high level sport and Trott would of being in a position of having to admit his problems and potentially faced being dropped from the team. As a professional cricketer admitting to this, he is putting his international career at risk (Shiver is right that the selectors would think twice about taking him) and at the end of the day, this is still Trott's source of income (club cricketers are not that well paid in comparison).

Warner is a proven knobhead, but I agree his comments were probably the underlying factor to him pulling out straight after.

Wouldn't mind seeing Broad slip a nice juicy beamer down at Warner to rattle his helmet in the 2nd test. Umpires will let you get away with one, if you say oops straight after and apologise Wink
the shiver
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:59 pm
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tjm8 wrote:
Re. Trott, I don't know about his personal circumstance, but reading Marcus Trescothick's book a few years ago was a real eye opener. Reading how he suffered in silence for years and was able to hide his illness from his closest friends was pretty shocking.

As for him signing up to the tour and hiding it from the management, yes I can believe this. No one wants to ever show weakness, especially at high level sport and Trott would of being in a position of having to admit his problems and potentially faced being dropped from the team. As a professional cricketer admitting to this, he is putting his international career at risk (Shiver is right that the selectors would think twice about taking him) and at the end of the day, this is still Trott's source of income (club cricketers are not that well paid in comparison).

Warner is a proven knobhead, but I agree his comments were probably the underlying factor to him pulling out straight after.

Wouldn't mind seeing Broad slip a nice juicy beamer down at Warner to rattle his helmet in the 2nd test. Umpires will let you get away with one, if you say oops straight after and apologise Wink


In short your saying hes been selfish and unproffesional total disregard for his team.
I dont want to come across as harsh here as i have a family member who suffers with mental health issues so i dont take it lightly.
My point is this man is a professional sportsman in a TEAM sport who,if what the establishment are saying is true has been TOTALLY selfish....yes?
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It was one of the privileges of my poker life to watch Barny win his bracelet, putting on a master class in front of an audience who would have run onto the stage and carried him over the ****ing line if thats what it was going to take. There is bracelets and there is bracelets. This was one of the very special ones...Padraig Parkinson
tjm8
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:50 am
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No that's not what I am saying.

What I am suggesting is that Trott tried to deal with it on his own and gradually his issues got to a point where he couldn't cope any longer. I don't think what he did was deliberately selfish in any way, but just something which happens in life when depression gets a grip.

Some of these guys are now only at home for about 3-4 months a year and when you have young families, it must be a difficult experience, spending so much time away.

Lets not forget Trott was averaging over 50 for a long time, so he has earned plenty of respect for what he has done for the England team in the past.

Then again, everything may of been fine for him for a long time, but maybe something has changed in his personal circumstances and this is a recent illness (not like Trescothick who had to contend with issues like homesickness from a very early age).

I prefer to look at this as a sign of strength on Trott's part to admit he needs help.
I hope to see him back playing Cricket when he is ready.
the shiver
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:47 am
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And so do i....
A fit healthy mentally strong Trott is a top draw test match batsman.
If what you say is true that he didnt want to risk his income and tried to work through it, i just personally think in a team sport that is totally unprofessional.
As a professional sportsman you must surely get to know yourself if your "not quite right"
Even more so if you're battling a mental health issue.
Be it pa physical or a mental injury, the man in my opinion has kept this from his team mates.
Its no different to a centre half not telling the manager 3 days before a cup final he can feel his hamstring tweaking, then ten minutes into the game he goes one on one with the centre forward and breaks down completely.....has the centre half let his team down?..imo yes he has.
An ashes tour on the other side of the world for 6 months isnt in my eyes somewhere you go unless your 100% bang on and ready for 6 months of high pressure sport.
From whats transpired he clearly isnt 100% and chose to still go
What isnt arguable is we wish him a speedy recovery as England clearly need his talent
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It was one of the privileges of my poker life to watch Barny win his bracelet, putting on a master class in front of an audience who would have run onto the stage and carried him over the ****ing line if thats what it was going to take. There is bracelets and there is bracelets. This was one of the very special ones...Padraig Parkinson
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