Genting moving the goalposts.

[dwh103]

[zebediah]

I actually bailed 2nd week, I could see that to win the league it will be become a war of attrition with the top few places being to whoever have the deepest pockets, asides from someone running like a god of course.

making them all rebuys just makes this even more that way, you could be investing the best part of a grand to win a package worth a few grand.
If you miss out you could unlucky/play bad in the play-off and get no return for hundreds of pounds.
tbh playing the stars WSOP vegas sats would be a much more +ev investment.

Not mad about it, just opted out, suppose everyone of us that bails makes the remaining players more determined.
Happy to have my buyins back though

Also influenced by the fact that I would unlikely to get off work, can't get a long weekend at the moment!
_________________
because you very very retardo i lose

[DouglasPenman]

making them all rebuys just makes this even more that way, you could be investing the best part of a grand to win a package worth a few grand.

-> this x100


I signed up to genting to play this promo specifically and have invested 7 entire evenings in it.

I have emailed support and the guy that sent the email but have received no reply. Im glad that other players can see through this as I can. The only way this can be sustained is through players not realising its changed or not being able to do a simple value calculation (admittedly we cant tell exactly how much is in the prizepool to make that calc) - either way it ends up being paying 1000$ say for the possibility of a chance of a seat.
You want me to play a rebuy for no prize? How can you expect people to rebuy (and thus play) in these tournaments given the structure??

This may hurt casual players because of the extra tourneys but it hurts people in the hunt too- they fork out hundreds of dollars a week for something that will end up being maybe 3 slots from 10 shootout.

ps. 250$ "added" for weekly winner is garbage given its a 20r to begin with!

So disappointed with genting.

As there seems to be no genting forum I am hoping to ask the folk playing in this tournament what they think of it.

DouglasPenman


for reference he was my original email - hopefully someone can reply-

Hi David,

I saw this on the website today before I read this email and spoke to live support (they couldn't help). I am extremely unhappy about these changes. I chose this tournament structure because it was available on days I could play and I cleared my diary to do it on the monday and thursdays which was no easy task -I have already committed 7 entire evenings to this- and now find out it might be for nothing as I cannoy play the sunday tournaments.

Also I do not understand why if the buyins have changed then week 9 and 10 have a bigger payout.

It is clear that this is more expensive than the previously tournaments as everything is a rebuy instead of a 50/50 split of freezeout to rebuy (especially since the 30 rebuy tournament is only a 20 rebuy anyway).

With no prize pool in the event itself the set up is now almost emperors new clothes - how much I try depends on how much the other top 11 are trying- in that vein I wonder if it would be possible for you to update us each tournament or week with the current prize pool as this makes a big difference to the value of playing in these. For example my strategy certainly will not be to rebuy aggressively now that you have added in more tournaments.


Also along this point I am sure you realise this but attendance will continue to drop- people aren't going to throw crazy money about in a rebuy period unless they have a clear chance to move up a band (ie make top 10 or first)


Im not stupid and realise you did this because there was a danger you would not make the guarentee - however I feel that is your downside risk - you don't see stars cancelling tournaments because they miss the guarantee slightly. If people have signed up to genting specifically (as I have done) to play this promotion then that extra business is not really being accounting for when you change the terms.

I realise you are doing this because of the guarantee and obviously you have the right to change the terms, but doing this halfway through is unfair to players to that have committed to this already.


Can you confirm that the $250 added value for the top person of the week is not taken from the prize pool? Because I think it is false advertising to say this is added value when it is taken from the prize pool??


If this is really from player feedback then who are these players that are getting a say and how can I be involved because it seems like you are pandering to the folk that have not committed time and effort in this challenge to this point.

Regards,

[The Cub]

Hi All...Some of you may know me and some may not but I'm Chris and own the other forum mentioned in this thread with Alistair.

The thread on AWOP is pretty similar to this one. It's obv we all have our views on this and as a grass-root player myself I find myself in a pickle and can see myself being forced out of this due to BR issues that the changes have brought...I obv have 2 views on the matter, business and personal, this is a copy of my personal POV which I posted on AWOP earlier with an idea that could help those of us without the BR to carry on playing...

IMHO and as Rick has pointed out in the thread you've responded to the cash element of this may play a bigger part in this than you all think. I had a lengthy conversation with Dave on Tuesday evening and said to him that imo this may kill the concept behind the game, I hope to god it doesn't and we do see numbers rise as I have an idea the amount of time and effort that has gone into this. My reasons for my opinion are this...I myself am a grass-root player and am fortunate enough to be in the top 10 at the moment. After these changes, frankly I will not be able to afford to play in any more events after I have reached the required number of comps as there is no financial benefit. As Rick has stated some players were relying on the 40% payout in order to play the next event, myself being one of them. With all the games being re-buys now as well my feelings are that I could not justify spending £100+ per week(assuming I take 1 rebuy and the Addon) which then suddenly become £200+ per week as the better half is in 7th spot on the leader-board. I know I am only 1 of 400+ players who have registered for the Challenge but I would say I am about the same level as say 60% of the field who play as it's the only realistic way I can see myself being able to 1) afford to go to Vegas during the WSOP 2) Play in a WSOP event.

On Monday 71 players took part with $840 or so being paid out for a $10 rebuy. Now however, $260 would be for each game and that's for the $10 rebuy. If things stay the way they are and we assume we lose another 10% of the fields when the $20 rebuys come into action then this would obv be a massive increase on the potential payout that will be retained, imo it would be nearer the $1500/$1600 mark. I understand what your saying about the narrow fields, more chance of winning side of things but to be honest I know don't even know whether or not I'm going to qualify as unless I win the lottery I just haven't got the money to invest knowing before the game starts I will be winning nothing bar a satellite token into another game. Many of us have families and unfortunately on my part both me and my partner play so simply cannot justify a potential £200 outlay per week

That's my outlook on the TVC for the foreseeable future so I'll have to keep my fingers crossed that I remain in the Top 40 so I still have a chance but as the points go up according to the buy-in I just can't see that happening. I feel as though the funds I have invested to this point will be paying for someone else to go to the sun and sit at the felt.

All that being said though, working in the industry I understand the reasoning behind the changes as none of us are in business to lose money, I feel that the changes don't take the smaller players bankroll(or lack of it) or even the casual player into account.

Just an idea but in my opinion a feasible one...Could you not retain 2 out of the 3 pots, say a Monday nights game, thus giving myself and many others I expect, the chance to roll our way to Vegas. Even if that was a reduced payout of 25%.

Chris

[cantfoldKJ]

+1 to TheCub's post above. I also can't afford to play this league anymore after
the changes and i was in 19th place after playing 3 games.


Here's a quote from you first post in this thread Dave.
(sorry i dunno how to copy stuff i'm rubbish on a computer)

"These changes have been met with a mixed response, both good and bad, but they
have also increased the number of players signing up to participate in this promotion
and hopefully this will be seen in the coming weeks tournaments."


Hmm ok numbers were always going to increase no matter if the changes where
never made. It would be impossible for the number of players signing up to go
down wouldn't it.

Also as players have said on here the numbers would take a dip after these
changes not increase like you would have hoped Dave.

53 players playing tonight , i'm pretty sure that's the lowest turnout so far
in any of the tourneys played.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was an even bigger overlay possible now
after the changes were made.

So many mistakes in the 1 promo....sigh

[DouglasPenman]

1. 100% agree with this - given im in top 10 currently also "When people feel they don't have a chance of the big prize, they'll stop. Increasing their costs by 50% is hardly likely to encourage participation. I'm 3rd in the goddamn league and considering if it's worth my while for christ's sake! DA Lion is 8th - if we're considering ditching it, what the hell will those lower in the table be thinking?!"

2. Dave who are the people forecasting 10k overlay? – do they understand behavioural response?

3. "These have bene met with good and bad repsonses" – can you tell me what these "good" responses were and who said them (dotn need name but whether they are actually in the promotion would help!)? I can’t think of anyone (bar perhaps very rich folk who are registered but haven’t played yet) who would think this is a good idea.

4. The blatant extra money grab is bad enough but the extra TIME factor now to make top 11 (for a freezeout with now minimual overlay against decent players) is just as bad.


Please yourself and Gary answer everyones questions honestly.

Thanks,

DouglasPenman

[The Cub]

Hi Douglas, Gary isn't completely available this week as he is on holiday with his family but is responding when he can. Dave didn't really have much to do with the decisions that were made, he is trying to answer the Q's best he can and I have NO doubt whatsoever that his responses will be completely honest.

I hope to God that something can be done as I, and I'm sure most of you guys, would love to carry on playing this promo if it is possible in any way. Saying that though my suggestion at the end of my post was exactly that, a suggestion, I doubt very much whether any more changes will be made....I'm keeping my fingers crossed though

Chris

[Dave@GentingPoker]

Hi Guys,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

I would like to confirm that there will be no further changes to the promotion and we will see the promotion out till the end.


Douglas,

I would like to apologise for not answering your mail. I am 1 of a 2 man team with the other 1 being on annual leave so in an attempt to answer as many people in one swoop i chose to post on the forums. Hopefully you have found all the answers to your questions on here.

Dave

[DouglasPenman]

There are still a lot of unanswered questions Gary (see mine and others above in this thread) - would like a reply to them before Monday tournament please.

[Dave@GentingPoker]

Douglas,

1. I am not entirely sure what they will be thinking.

2. That will be my superior, Gary. I am not sure what his understanding of behavioural response is though.

3. I can confirm I had 7 responses from players that received the same e-mails as yourself, they are indeed taking part in the promotion

I will confirm again that neither the cost of the tokens you will win or the $250 weekly player prize will be taken from the prize pool.

With regards to 9 and 10, I have passed this on to Gary, along with the rest of your e-mail for him to look at.

Dave

[DropTheHammer]

Fair play to the Genting support coming on here and regularly updating and responding. Whoever penned the original email though should seek an appointment as a Mayoral candidate's spin doctor

Despite not getting off to a fantastic start, after their confirmation that this league will not be cancelled I have decided to keep playing.

I hope to qualify in the top 40 by playing the minimum required to also get automatic entry into the Fair Play league (ie playing 16 tournaments-although I thought that this used to be 10, before the Sunday game was added...can anoyone confirm that this has been upped too?).

[Dave@GentingPoker]

Hi DropTheHammer,

Great news to hear you are going to continue. I can confirm that it has always been 16 tournaments to qualify for the Fair Play Freeroll.

Dave

[DouglasPenman]

u need 10 for a prize hammer, you alwasy needed 16 for the fairplay freeroll.

Another quesiton to those above - Will genting be looking itno compensating players who signed up for the original promotion and now can't play?

[Dave@GentingPoker]

Genting will not consider compensation for players who can no longer play the promotion. It is in the T&C's, number 5

5. We reserve the right to alter / adjust the promotion. In the event of the promotion being cancelled, any retained prize pool will be paid into a freeroll prize pool and players will be be able to play for the prize money.

[cantfoldKJ]

fair play Dave for responding again.

Good to hear that the league is playing to a finish for those
planning to keep going.

It's just a shame that these changes have ultimately ruled
me out as i can't afford to play with no prize pool
and as i only work part-time.

Also Dave can you see the numbers picking up again ?
I can't if i'm honest i can't see >60 playing this 3 times a week.