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Jon MW
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Joined: 17 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:58 pm
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The Reverend wrote:
Jon MW wrote:
Matt101 wrote:
... poker player is a definate no no. ....


why?


Seriously. I can only think this would be A Good Thing, if you were ever investigated regarding your having an income you're not paying tax on. Are you worried that when Labour get back in they'll start selling the census information to private companies or allowing their councils to decide if you're generating more rubbish?

Do you seriously think the Government is unaware that people are professional poker players!??? The reason they don't tax it is because it would cost them more than it would gain.

Census data is not shared with Government departments, it's used to create an overall picture, it's not about individuals. I am hugely against things like this usually, and delighted that LibCons will be removing many, but sadly no-where near all, of the various illiberal police state laws Labour brought in, but the Government is there to manage the country, it needs this sort of information to do that more efficiently.

There is a danger that when Labour get back in they will start opening up the information to all, or even selling to private companies, but hopefully that won't be for a long time, and I'll be living in Barcelona by then.


Basically a leading question to lead on to the fact that the only people who look at census results are statisticians. The politicians and civil servants only see the statistics generated from them.

People have worried that their census information is going to be shared and used against them for over 200 years now, so it's nothing new.
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Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield

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Matt101
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:00 pm
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The Reverend wrote:
Do you seriously think the Government is unaware that people are professional poker players!???


I'm pretty sure there are plenty of dumbass politicians who believe poker is purely a game of chance. If it comes back that there are 5000 people out there all giving poker as their way of making a living maybe a few will change their mind, and maybe there will be political pressure for a change in the law.
Jon MW
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Joined: 17 Feb 2006
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Location: Hastings

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:06 pm
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Matt101 wrote:
The Reverend wrote:
Do you seriously think the Government is unaware that people are professional poker players!???


I'm pretty sure there are plenty of dumbass politicians who believe poker is purely a game of chance. If it comes back that there are 5000 people out there all giving poker as their way of making a living maybe a few will change their mind, and maybe there will be political pressure for a change in the law.


lol at it being worth their while for the sake of a few thousand people

What you've said supports what I was going to say - if the government knew exactly how many people were making a living from poker, it would just confirm that it's not worth taxing it as income.
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Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield

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oneshotbob
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:10 pm
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Jon MW wrote:
lol at it being worth their while for the sake of a few thousand people

What you've said supports what I was going to say - if the government knew exactly how many people were making a living from poker, it would just confirm that it's not worth taxing it as income.


5000 people pay tax on their wins. 500,000* want a rebate for their losses. Not worth it.


*i have made up this number.
Matt101
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:16 pm
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Jon MW wrote:
lol at it being worth their while for the sake of a few thousand people

What you've said supports what I was going to say - if the government knew exactly how many people were making a living from poker, it would just confirm that it's not worth taxing it as income.


Human nature being what it is, people don't like the idea of some getting what they would see as a free ride. It may not have made much financial sense to overtax the bankers but political pressure is a strong thing and often overrides common sense.

Imagine if the Daily Mail ran it as a campaign..
Jon MW
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:25 pm
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Matt101 wrote:
Jon MW wrote:
lol at it being worth their while for the sake of a few thousand people

What you've said supports what I was going to say - if the government knew exactly how many people were making a living from poker, it would just confirm that it's not worth taxing it as income.


Human nature being what it is, people don't like the idea of some getting what they would see as a free ride. It may not have made much financial sense to overtax the bankers but political pressure is a strong thing and often overrides common sense.

Imagine if the Daily Mail ran it as a campaign..


Not enough people would care.

If thousands of poker players were earning hundreds of thousands then maybe so, but they're not.
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Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield

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danmonkey
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:17 pm
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The reason why poker will not be taxed is the same reason that gambling winnings in general are not taxable as income.

The UK taxation system is built on a vast amount of case law on the 'fairness' principle (quite unlike the US and many others).

This means that if poker income was taxable, then poker losses could be offset against taxation on other sources of earned income.

Hence, the Rev's point is not made because the administration costs would cost too much (otherwise it would just be another class of self employment and subject to declaration on a tax return) but because the offsetting of losses by 'normal' tax payers would be substantially more than the tax on the 'earnings' of winning players.
Indestructible
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:40 pm
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Serious question coming up....

Some religions are kept separate e.g. Jewish and Buddhist, but Protestants and Catholics are lumped in as one. Why? Confused
Grumbledook
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:43 pm
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both christianity obv

buddhism and judaism aren't totally different
Scunner_D
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:43 pm
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Indestructible wrote:
Serious question coming up....

Some religions are kept separate e.g. Jewish and Buddhist, but Protestants and Catholics are lumped in as one. Why? Confused


Protestants and Catholics are both separate divisions within the Christian religion.

Judaism, Bhudism, Islam, Christianity etc are all separate religions.
lex
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:22 pm
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Grumbledook wrote:
both christianity obv

buddhism and judaism aren't totally different


Buddhism is less like the others than the others are like each other, imo.
oldbloke
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:12 pm
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It's a bit weird, it depends on how you choose to draw the lines.
Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all have the same God, but radically different views on His relationship with us.
/proper/ buddhism doesn't have a god at all, though many of its minor forms worship particular entities
Is Agnostic an option? I mean proper agnostic, the thesis that it's unprovable, not wishywashy agnostic, the "I dunno m8" version.
Go for Zen - shortest one to write.
Indestructible
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:58 am
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My Mrs response is because they don't hate each other as much as they used to...
Alex B
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Joined: 25 Apr 2005
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Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:31 am
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oldbloke wrote:
It's a bit weird, it depends on how you choose to draw the lines.
Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all have the same God, but radically different views on His relationship with us.
/proper/ buddhism doesn't have a god at all, though many of its minor forms worship particular entities
Is Agnostic an option? I mean proper agnostic, the thesis that it's unprovable, not wishywashy agnostic, the "I dunno m8" version.
Go for Zen - shortest one to write.


'Proper' intellectual agnosticism wouldn't allow the leap of faith to assert that that it is certainly unprovable. "I dunno m8 (but the hyptheses based on religious mythology are pathetic)" is the less intellectually-wishy-washy opinion.

Agnosticism leaves one without a religious subscription, i.e. a-theist.

The idea that 'atheist' is a position of fundamentalist denial is a load of rubbish, and ideally every non-believer should be ticking that so we can count the numbers properly, move society forwards, and stop asking religious groups for opinions on political and social issues.
Jokeslayer
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:12 am
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Alex B wrote:

The idea that 'atheist' is a position of fundamentalist denial is a load of rubbish, and ideally every non-believer should be ticking that so we can count the numbers properly, move society forwards, and stop asking religious groups for opinions on political and social issues.


That's not what'll happen. There'll just be a lot of hand-wringing and moaning about the number of godless heathens in this good Christian country.
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