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lex
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:49 pm
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Scunner_D wrote:
lex wrote:
Yeah that certainly offers the old olive branch. Does Winner have a column somewhere? Will this end in the middle class version of a driveby?


well...he was messing with someone who ultimately has the weapon of a newspaper column. and articulation. unfortunately he will probably just choose his victims more carefully in the future. those who feel too embarrassed or unable to answer back in an effective way.


Victims? Come on, he's just a bored old fart looking for a playmate. I bet if he found that timid 23 year old waitress he would be horrified to upset her.
Scunner_D
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:56 pm
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lex wrote:

Victims? Come on, he's just a bored old fart looking for a playmate. I bet if he found that timid 23 year old waitress he would be horrified to upset her.


well...who knows.

As VC said - its just embarrassing for the person its directed at. and embarrassing for him.

no Winners.
Leus
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:04 pm
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I'd like to row back a little bit from my previous post. Winner is certainly a pathetic bully and there's certainly a case to be made for dragging him over the coals for it. It provides a topical example of misogyny in action.

One underlying problem is a generic one, though - his trolling for attention has been rewarded with greater personal exposure. That's why it was tactically brilliant to take it into the personal realm by phoning him. I think it's also true, in light of his need for attention, that this could have been nipped in the bud and then ignored, depriving him of reward.

I really wanted to point out that my view has nothing to do with approving of, or passively tolerating, his behaviour. It's tactical; overcoming objectification of women is a generational task. Battles should be picked carefully. Celebrity spats are open to criticism, whatever their subject and however cleverly the arguments are constructed, when media exposure itself is a commodity with a value that is independent of moral or social worth. It raises the question of motivation.

You can pick any number of idiots, there's no shortage of them, to fight this out with. Picking this particular idiot was probably a mistake in my view. An example from 'everyday life' would illustrate the real problems more clearly and objectively. Winner is an outlier, a particularly grotesque case from a bygone age.

God I'm boring. Rolling Eyes
Scunner_D
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:13 pm
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Leus wrote:
I'd like to row back a little bit from my previous post. Winner is certainly a pathetic bully and there's certainly a case to be made for dragging him over the coals for it. It provides a topical example of misogyny in action.

One underlying problem is a generic one, though - his trolling for attention has been rewarded with greater personal exposure. That's why it was tactically brilliant to take it into the personal realm by phoning him. I think it's also true, in light of his need for attention, that this could have been nipped in the bud and then ignored, depriving him of reward.

I really wanted to point out that my view has nothing to do with approving of, or passively tolerating, his behaviour. It's tactical; overcoming objectification of women is a generational task. Battles should be picked carefully. Celebrity spats are open to criticism, whatever their subject and however cleverly the arguments are constructed, when media exposure itself is a commodity with a value that is independent of moral or social worth. It raises the question of motivation.

You can pick any number of idiots, there's no shortage of them, to fight this out with. Picking this particular idiot was probably a mistake in my view. An example from 'everyday life' would illustrate the real problems more clearly and objectively. Winner is an outlier, a particularly grotesque case from a bygone age.

God I'm boring. Rolling Eyes


no, you're not.
Leus
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:13 pm
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xx
lex
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:54 pm
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Scunner_D wrote:
lex wrote:

Victims? Come on, he's just a bored old fart looking for a playmate. I bet if he found that timid 23 year old waitress he would be horrified to upset her.


well...who knows.

As VC said - its just embarrassing for the person its directed at. and embarrassing for him.

no Winners.


I get it though: it's simultaneously public, and therefore impersonal, and an invitation to play and get as personal as possible. Twitter is like forums for people who believe they're too cool for them and need that extra layer of coy. Vicky subverted that by leaping into his personal space (clever tactics, as Leus said) and inviting him to raise or fold.

I don't think it's embarrassing for anyone and I don't get why people want to take sides, but then I love football and don't understand the threads where fans argue with each other. It's a beautiful game - why bring hostility into it?
Scunner_D
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:06 pm
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lex wrote:

I get it though: it's simultaneously public, and therefore impersonal, and an invitation to play and get as personal as possible. Twitter is like forums for people who believe they're too cool for them and need that extra layer of coy. Vicky subverted that by leaping into his personal space (clever tactics, as Leus said) and inviting him to raise or fold.

I don't think it's embarrassing for anyone and I don't get why people want to take sides, but then I love football and don't understand the threads where fans argue with each other. It's a beautiful game - why bring hostility into it?


what if 7000 people were discussing the size of your penis?

would you not be a wee bit embarrassed and want to answer back?
lex
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:19 pm
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The large audience is exactly what makes it impersonal and safe. They weren't really talking about her breasts, or talking about Vicky at all. Michael wanted to play, Vicky said "okay, but on my terms", Michael freaked out. Their followers were used as emotional buffers without, apparently, realising their purpose in the exchange.

Can we not abstract ourselves from the role of follower to become impartial lovers of the beautiful game?

And, as Oscar Wilde once tweeted, there is only one thing worse than the size of your penis being talked about...


Last edited by lex on Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
lex
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:26 pm
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I'm trying to think of 7000 people who could comment on my penis. I'm certain much of it would be hearsay.
Leus
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:23 pm
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The problem of women being bullied by 'comedians' is real. That's why the football analogy is superficial.

But the idea of this as a game also demonstrates why the sleb v sleb context is counter-productive - it isn't the best platform for a moral argument, since for example it won't necessarily convince people who want Jordan to stfu, or people who see abuse of celebrities as part of the price of their profitable exposure, or people who think private disagreements should not be publicised, or..
lex
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:26 pm
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Thread split then.
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