Joined: 03 Aug 2006 Posts: 784 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:40 pm Post subject:
Bet the flop!
What was the reasoning for check raising the flop and then check calling the turn? _________________ Hopefully it will take me less than 50 million years to evolve from a fish to a dry land animal
What was the reasoning for check raising the flop and then check calling the turn?
FPS
Indeed. I can't think of 1 single reason why you would CR there
What was the table playing like?
You raise 3bb UTG and get what 4 callers? I might therefore be inclined to raise more pre, to thin them out a little.
You CR the flop then check the turn?? Imagine if you were your opponent, your bet sizing and frequency makes no sense what so ever. _________________ "Stalked a girl today, first in a long while. Not the scary kind of stalking." - Fraac - He really is one of the good guys!!
Joined: 03 Aug 2006 Posts: 784 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:38 pm Post subject:
peligruso wrote:
_doubleup wrote:
Peligruso please don't bet for information, it costs too much and can't be relied on.
Your right i meant to say bet for value, KK is ahead of villains range on the turn.
That was my initial thoughts as I hate to go into check/call mode. However given the stack sizes on the turn as the hand was played I think we should be checking the turn because I am not sure that there there enough hands that we can get value from by betting here.
As played by betting here we are committed - if we bet say 10 into 16.85, villain only has 7 remaining so whatever happens we are not folding the river or to a turn raise. So in that case if we are betting the turn we should shove (we are now in this spot due to the flop check raise - another reason that betting out on the flop is better as if we are raised on the flop we can commit and shove but if we are just called there is more room to play on the turn without being committed).
So we have a choice of check or shove - the question is what range do we think villain calls a raise preflop with there, bets the flop when checked to and then calls a check raise? Seems like a decent amount of made hands and flush draws to me? When we check raise the flop and shove the turn we look like we have at least an overpair - so on the turn most made hands we beat that do not contain a pair and a decent heart surely should fold to a shove (I am assuming this villain is not a fish). So given this, what hands call a turn shove - flushes, trips (less likely as with 2 hearts on the board a lot of the time trips will 3bet the flop), nines full, TT/JJ/QQ with a heart. Isn't he folding most of the hands we beat to a shove?
So as played I check the turn and fold the river.
Even if we bet the flop, unless this villain is a big fish I am still not sure that the turn is a clear value bet. It's either a bet fold or a check-call but I cant see how we are ever good if we stack off on the turn - and we are bloating the pot out of position. I might tend towards checking the turn and betting a non heart river for thin value if he checks behind the turn - I think you might get looked up a fair bit by hands you beat that way.
Thoughts? _________________ Hopefully it will take me less than 50 million years to evolve from a fish to a dry land animal
i think his CR is better than a c-bet it defines the guys hand even more, what wouldnt villain call $6.75 CR with that he WOULD call a c-bet with?. Come the turn what can KK beat now the villain has suffered the CR. Agree about the raise pre tho, too small..OP is possibly looking for someone to squeeze. _________________ never chop wood in a rubber dinghy
Joined: 03 Aug 2006 Posts: 784 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:09 pm Post subject:
the shiver wrote:
i think his CR is better than a c-bet it defines the guys hand even more, what wouldnt villain call $6.75 CR with that he WOULD call a c-bet with?. Come the turn what can KK beat now the villain has suffered the CR. Agree about the raise pre tho, too small..OP is possibly looking for someone to squeeze.
His cr better defines villains hand with the given action, but that does not make it the better play overall. We lose a ton of value overall when everyone checks behind the flop.... _________________ Hopefully it will take me less than 50 million years to evolve from a fish to a dry land animal
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