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mp3 the way I are

Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 1263 Location: bundy's gonna get you
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:02 pm Post subject: Pokerstars 50NL, check or bet river with 2 pair? |
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I've been sat down for about 10 hands and the table is passive with 2 players sitting out. I called preflop because I thought I could take it away on any flop with a c/r but as I hit the flop I thought I'd get some value if possible...
Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter
BB: $20.50
CO: $50.59
BTN: $20.00
Hero (SB): $50.15
Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is SB with A 7
CO calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.25, BB checks
Flop: ($1.50) 7 A 9 (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, CO checks
Turn: ($1.50) J (3 players)
Hero bets $0.75, BB folds, CO raises to $1.50, Hero raises to $4.50, CO calls $3
River: ($10.50) 8 (2 players)
Him calling the turn tells me he has a hand so should I check call or bet? I don't think check raising is optimal as he won't be calling anything I beat in my opinion...
I should add that I've been playing O8 exclusively for about 6 months and this is my first session of Holdem so I'm rusty to say the least  _________________ The bitterest tears at graves are shed for deeds left undone and words left unsaid. |
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Nem Moderator
Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 17176
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Preflop I wouldnt complete with A7o, just throw it away. On the flop just bet out. River is bet/fold imo. |
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OwenP Straight Flush

Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 4430
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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I'd definitely rather check-call than bet, hoping he has a worse two pair, although I don't particularly like calling a river bet either.
When he raises the turn I'd say he has minimum a pair of jacks, or a worse two pair (one pair being jacks) or a straight. It's not very likely he has a set unless he wanted to try check-raising the flop.
On this board, with no PF aggressor, I'd rather just lead the flop for value and hope someone has some part of it. You can get some value in here before risking another heart killing the action.
As played on the flop, I'd definitely not 3-bet the turn, especially not when you're going to consider check-calling the river. Are you 3-betting for value or as a bluff? Considering the lack of action up to this point, you are likely behind anything that calls your 3-bet. I'd call his raise and re-evaluate the river. |
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Nem Moderator
Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 17176
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| OwenP wrote: | | I'd definitely rather check-call than bet, hoping he has a worse two pair, although I don't particularly like calling a river bet either. |
Will he value bet now that the four card straight has come? |
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Matt101 Straight Flush

Joined: 18 Jan 2006 Posts: 3219
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Don't think there's anything wrong with checking the flop with a view to a C/R. Would probably be betting more than half pot on the turn & calling his min raise rather than 3betting. Do you think a small blocker bet would work on the river or would he see through it? |
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mp3 the way I are

Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 1263 Location: bundy's gonna get you
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| OwenP wrote: | | As played on the flop, I'd definitely not 3-bet the turn, especially not when you're going to consider check-calling the river. Are you 3-betting for value or as a bluff? |
I 3bet because I'm sure I'm ahead here, I would have expected a better Ace to bet the flop after I check? The river was probably one of the worst cards apart from a heart or a jack to counterfeit me, thats why I was confused
Also I figured after missing a bet on the flop I could juice the pot up with regards to v-betting the river.
| Matt101 wrote: | | Don't think there's anything wrong with checking the flop with a view to a C/R. Would probably be betting more than half pot on the turn & calling his min raise rather than 3betting. Do you think a small blocker bet would work on the river or would he see through it? |
I just don't know if I can call a raise though on the river if he goes for it? Which is why I thought check/calling might be best, he wont be raising with anything I beat? After playing Omaha for so long I'm seeing straights and top 2 pair everywhere and I thought as QT just got there... _________________ The bitterest tears at graves are shed for deeds left undone and words left unsaid. |
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OwenP Straight Flush

Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 4430
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Nem wrote: |
Will he value bet now that the four card straight has come? |
He certainly will if he has a straight.
I expect the river to be more like check-check, which is why I don't particularly like calling a river bet but check-calling is certainly better than betting IMO.
| Matt101 wrote: | | Don't think there's anything wrong with checking the flop with a view to a C/R. |
With no PF aggressor it's less likely anyone is going to bet. The button might stab at it but fold to our check-raise, so we just turn the two pair into a bluff. By betting at least we can get value from mid-pair hands etc.
Also does Hero check-raise draws on the flop? If not then I would check-call as my second option, then at least we can rep a drawing hand and let Villain fire another barrel on a blank turn. |
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OwenP Straight Flush

Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 4430
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| mp3 wrote: | | I 3bet because I'm sure I'm ahead here, I would have expected a better Ace to bet the flop after I check? |
What range do you think Villain has when he raises you on the turn? |
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Nem Moderator
Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 17176
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| OwenP wrote: | | Nem wrote: |
Will he value bet now that the four card straight has come? |
He certainly will if he has a straight. |
Exactly. He is never bluff raising worst or value betting worst now that the 4 card straight has come. Time to extract maximum value from worst hands. |
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OwenP Straight Flush

Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 4430
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Nem wrote: |
Exactly. He is never bluff raising worst or value betting worst now that the 4 card straight has come. Time to extract maximum value from worst hands. |
You are assuming that Villain will call with worse hands, and that worse hands will call the turn 3-bet. |
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Nem Moderator
Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 17176
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| OwenP wrote: | | Nem wrote: |
Exactly. He is never bluff raising worst or value betting worst now that the 4 card straight has come. Time to extract maximum value from worst hands. |
You are assuming that Villain will call with worse hands, and that worse hands will call the turn 3-bet. |
op's hand is massively under repped, Villian will be raising the turn with loads of worst hands - KJ, QJ, J9. If he had AJ or better he should be 4betting or shoving the turn. |
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Checkov Royal Flush

Joined: 13 Sep 2003 Posts: 10103
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Nem wrote: | | Preflop I wouldnt complete with A7o, just throw it away. On the flop just bet out. River is bet/fold imo. |
4-handed folding for a half a bet to a CO limp seems rather nitish, with a short-stack big blind. I'd raise but whatever. |
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Nem Moderator
Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 17176
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Checkov wrote: | | Nem wrote: | | Preflop I wouldnt complete with A7o, just throw it away. On the flop just bet out. River is bet/fold imo. |
4-handed folding for a half a bet to a CO limp seems rather nitish, with a short-stack big blind. I'd raise but whatever. |
fold>raise>call. You have huge reverse implied odds with A7o, oop the whole hand and rarely are you going to flop big and stack someone.
Amazingly he flopped big and decided to check.  |
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sleepingtom Straight

Joined: 21 Jun 2009 Posts: 410 Location: Leeds/Manchester
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Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:40 am Post subject: |
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| call pre, pot flop, pot turn, check river imo |
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fubar King of tilt

Joined: 18 Jun 2009 Posts: 1572 Location: Final table
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Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:52 am Post subject: call or fold |
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Check call the river,I dont put him on anything more than a draw.The min raise to try and steal there and then and the call on the turn also shows weakness In my opinion
Its possible he has 2 pair in this position but surly he would be making a better raise than min surly to 3 or 4 times the bet to find out if his 2 pair are good and also chase of any draws.
The 8 on the river fills any strait draw hes on i say draw because if hes called a made strait on the turn its a poor call imo should be reraising at that point imo. Also any bet on the river makes it a difficult decision if your reraised and may have you even laying down the best hand.Let him bluff at the pot with his busted flush.
Then again hes probably got aj go figure  _________________ Finally things will start clicking…your elbows, knees and back! |
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