Goto page Previous  1, 2 View previous topic :: View next topic  
itsmemark72
Full House


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 825
Location: Midlands, England

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:11 pm
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
Think its unfair to say that any one of the players mentioned dont put the effort in when they play for England....at one time or another all of those players have looked world beaters but are just too inconsistent.

There is too much dross on the county scene IMO and that impacts on the performances when these guys come up against class international opposition....look at how Ramprakash used to put county attacks to the sword (still does!)yet all too often failed at test level and i think many of our team, certain instances apart, suffer from the same. Robert Key another case in point. Yes, we have some good young talent - Denly, Bopara, Rashid etc but these are never given a true chance - all of these would now be playing for Australia, SA or India IMO.

I totally agree about the coaching set up we have - so much a case of too many chiefs...i would get Gooch in there as Team Coach/Manager whatever and let him sort it out - he would have the players respect at all levels and stand for no BS - hed get KP back as Captain and put some steel into the team.

But i do think the domestic scene, especially the County Championship, needs a shake up...we play far too much one day stuff and the longer version of the game suffers for it. Yeh i know its what gets bums on seats and appeals to kids, but i really think our ability to perform consistently at test level against the true test playing nations suffers for a lack of competative 4 day cricket and the amalgamation of first class counties would definitely improve the standard before players make the jump to test level.
ReggieK
The Guvnor


Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Posts: 5759

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:38 pm
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
Yep, good points.
Definitely a lot of dross on the County scene, especially these mercenary Kolpak players. I'm proud to be a member of a county (Worcestershire) who have avoided that route. Also look at the number of players in their late 30s hanging around waiting for that huge benefit lump sum.

Gooch would be a fair choice as coach, though I would be worried about him making the same mistakes he did as captain, IE thinking all players were the same and should follow the exercise regime he did. Look at Gower and Botham where the opposite applied.
My choice would be Tom Moody, also there could be a space for thinkers of the game like Geoff Boycott. He certainly wouldn't stand for any shite.

Certainly agree about too much one day stuff, especially bloody 20/20.
When it first came in around 6 years ago it was great, 2 weeks of fun culminating in a good day out on finals day.
Now of course, or in this coming season, we will have 2 seperate leagues of the stuff, taking up half the season.
Perhaps the recession will have the opposite effect of which the managers of this would like to see. Families who they think are the core market maybe not bothering coming to see yet another 20/20 game.
Last year it was ridiculous, my team Worcs played 5 games in 9 days, not many people can afford to take the wife and kids for a night out at 17 quid a head tickets in that quantity.
Checkov
Royal Flush


Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Posts: 10111

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:58 pm
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
You can't say England never give players a chance once a player gets in which is the difficult bit, if he scores a ton or gets a fiver then he'll be in for the next 15 tests come what may.
Shame Woolmer was knocked off the Brian Clough of English cricket in many respects. Bell always seems to do better down the under then they push him back upto 3 for whatever reason, bit harsh saying he doesn't give 100% when he pulled out of the IPL auction so he's fit for the Ashes.
hackett
Straight Flush


Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 3923
Location: Somewhere very close

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:14 pm
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
To a casual observer this appears to be significantly more than just those 11 players on the field.

If the current county structure is in a poor state then how are we seriously going to produce not just 11 players to represent England, but players to be challenging each other for various positions within the team.

I don't see the inter team competitivness. I don't see 2 or 3 players challenging for each spot. Yes KP is nailed on to start any England game. Flintoff at 80% is more reliable than most and will therefore mostly start, but the rest that is a big worry.

For now we need to remain supportive of those in the Windies, but bhind the scene's i surely hope the ECB are looking to make wholesale changes to build for maybe not for this coming Ashes series but definetly the next.

I liked Gooch as a player but what sort of coaching credentials has he got to justify an England spot?
WeeBaws
Banned


Joined: 24 Sep 2008
Posts: 5598

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:50 pm
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
hackett wrote:
To a casual observer this appears to be significantly more than just those 11 players on the field.

If the current county structure is in a poor state then how are we seriously going to produce not just 11 players to represent England, but players to be challenging each other for various positions within the team.

I don't see the inter team competitivness. I don't see 2 or 3 players challenging for each spot. Yes KP is nailed on to start any England game. Flintoff at 80% is more reliable than most and will therefore mostly start, but the rest that is a big worry.

For now we need to remain supportive of those in the Windies, but bhind the scene's i surely hope the ECB are looking to make wholesale changes to build for maybe not for this coming Ashes series but definetly the next.

I liked Gooch as a player but what sort of coaching credentials has he got to justify an England spot?


Heavily involved at Essex Hackett, alongside Paul Grayson. Essex have been one of the bright lights over the last few seasons domestically. Admiteddly most of it has been on the shorter versions of the game.
How Bopara and James Foster are not involved is a joke.
Foster is easily the best glove man in England and bats not too shabbily as well.
Bopara will go on to become a world great if given the chances.
Checkov
Royal Flush


Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Posts: 10111

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:23 pm
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
TBF Bopara has been pretty abysmal when he has played. Should stop him bowling for England, don't think it does his confidence much good.
Chris Read is also probably a better keeper than Foster, and certainly better with the bat.
WeeBaws
Banned


Joined: 24 Sep 2008
Posts: 5598

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:29 pm
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
Checkov wrote:
TBF Bopara has been pretty abysmal when he has played. Should stop him bowling for England, don't think it does his confidence much good.
Chris Read is also probably a better keeper than Foster, and certainly better with the bat.


Afternoon drinking?
Checkov
Royal Flush


Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Posts: 10111

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:32 pm
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
Standing upto the stumps for a medium-fast bowler isn't really a requirement in test cricket.
ReggieK
The Guvnor


Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Posts: 5759

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:32 pm
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
Reads a good keeper, but doesnt have the bottle for the top job
Foster is a very good shout, best gloveman in the country, and improving as a batsman.
But old irongloves Prior has the gig only because he can bat, never mind the amount of clangers his iron gloves shell Crying or Very sad
WeeBaws
Banned


Joined: 24 Sep 2008
Posts: 5598

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:34 pm
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
We need a mix of Jack Russel and Alec Steward Reg!
hackett
Straight Flush


Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 3923
Location: Somewhere very close

PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:31 am
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/crick...gland/7902480.stm

The consensus seems to be a fresh input into the coaching roles to really shake up the current squad and fringe players.

The above story seems to indicate a re-shuffling of the current ineffective backroom staff and not new faces which is favoured here?
ReggieK
The Guvnor


Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Posts: 5759

PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:25 am
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
Urgh, would hate Andy Flower to be head coach.
I like him, he was a very talented player, in fact most of the time carried Zimbabwe's team on his shoulders, but the fact remains he's been our batting coach for a few years, and our batsmen have gone backwards
monkier
Straight


Joined: 28 May 2006
Posts: 294
Location: Harrogate

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:13 pm
View user's profile Send private message Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
itsmemark72 wrote:

Durham, Yorks, Lancs


****


Right


Off!
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Hendon Mob Forum Index -> Sports and Betting All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum