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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:14 am
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New article on the site:
Heads Up Limit by Carl 'The Dean' Sampson
BugsBunny
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:25 am
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Quote:
Whenever I am on the button then I will be playing a very high percentage of my hands. If I sense that I can dominate my opponent post flop then I will play if not 100% of my hands, then close to it. When I do play my hands then I am raising and I never limp in on the button and yes this means raising with junk. Raising gives my hand added equity in the pot but much of that equity disappears if you raise 100% of the time against a very good strong aggressive player.

but if I were against a strong opponent then I would still raise with around at least 80% of my starting hands


I find this interesting, I've been trying to learn this game for a short while now. Rmaccov gave me some links and on reading the stuff, I got the impression that around 75-80% was a good target to raise from the button.

I find it interesting that you feel you will raise close to 100% of hands against weak players which will always be the case more often than not anyway in HU as you won't want to play strong players.

Good article Carl, looking forward to reading your next article(s) on HU LHE.
Rmaccov
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:56 am
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The only hands I fold on the button (and I never call except maybe in very rare cases just to try and be a little different) are the big off suit gappers like J3, 102, etc. Suited I'll sometimes raise sometimes fold. I actually saw a good short video on the weakness of hands like Q3, etc. I'll try and find it, it explains the bad shape you will be in on most flops even compared to if you had a hand like 67os that has completely missed as well and with an overcard out. I'm not explaining it well, I'll try and find the video. It was like a trailer for a dvd someone was selling.

I play just under 85% of hands from the button.

Looking forward to more articles on this Dean, and hopefully some discussion.
Rmaccov
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:06 am
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Found it, it's a trailer for Byron Jacobs dvd on hu limit.

http://www.expertholdem.com/video4.html
The Dean
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:48 am
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Dean_Letham wrote:
Quote:
Whenever I am on the button then I will be playing a very high percentage of my hands. If I sense that I can dominate my opponent post flop then I will play if not 100% of my hands, then close to it. When I do play my hands then I am raising and I never limp in on the button and yes this means raising with junk. Raising gives my hand added equity in the pot but much of that equity disappears if you raise 100% of the time against a very good strong aggressive player.

but if I were against a strong opponent then I would still raise with around at least 80% of my starting hands


I find this interesting, I've been trying to learn this game for a short while now. Rmaccov gave me some links and on reading the stuff, I got the impression that around 75-80% was a good target to raise from the button.

I find it interesting that you feel you will raise close to 100% of hands against weak players which will always be the case more often than not anyway in HU as you won't want to play strong players.

Good article Carl, looking forward to reading your next article(s) on HU LHE.





Cheers Dean,

Actually having read that article back and a couple of comments on here I feel that it is important to point out a couple of things. Mainly that I dont want people to get the wrong idea about my level of aggression. An overly aggressive approach tends not to work online most of the time but even if it did then you still have reasons to tone the aggression down anyway.

For instance, if you are going face to face against a weak player then being too aggressive can scare him away from the table and especially if you are hitting flops. Just because a player sits down with $500 does not mean that he will just sit there and let you take it all from him. It could be bad strategy to scare off someone who could have passed you $500 over a longer period of play when you are only $150 ahead. You dont earn money by sitting on an empty table.

Also you can get killed by being too aggressive if it is your opponent who is running well because you can end up just throwing yourself onto your own sword so to speak and you are also vulnerable to the hit and runners as well. Before you realise what is going off, he has been check calling you down and you are 10-15 big bets in the hole and off he shoots.

Also if you are playing as a prop then it is in your best interests to keep the game active because if the game dies then so does your income so this also points to a less aggressive approach. In short then, an overly aggressive approach can be counter productive in many games for numerous reasons. Just thought that I would point that out.

cheers

The Dean
Jc 7s 7d As
www.pokerheaven.com/thedean
Alex B
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:23 am
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The Dean wrote:
An overly aggressive approach tends not to work online most of the time but even if it did then you still have reasons to tone the aggression down anyway.


True, but this one:

The Dean wrote:

Also you can get killed by being too aggressive if it is your opponent who is running well because you can end up just throwing yourself onto your own sword so to speak and you are also vulnerable to the hit and runners as well. Before you realise what is going off, he has been check calling you down and you are 10-15 big bets in the hole and off he shoots.


Is just superstition through hindsight. You are only vulnerable to hit-and-run if you deliberately spend a lot of cash advertising in the first few minutes, which will almost always be a bad strategy with the short nature of online sessions. A strategy is either good or bad, whether your opponent runs well as you apply it is irrelevant.

I agree with points about propping and "shearing a sheep many times but only getting to skin it once"
The Dean
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:06 am
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Alex B wrote:
The Dean wrote:
An overly aggressive approach tends not to work online most of the time but even if it did then you still have reasons to tone the aggression down anyway.


True, but this one:

The Dean wrote:

Also you can get killed by being too aggressive if it is your opponent who is running well because you can end up just throwing yourself onto your own sword so to speak and you are also vulnerable to the hit and runners as well. Before you realise what is going off, he has been check calling you down and you are 10-15 big bets in the hole and off he shoots.


Is just superstition through hindsight. You are only vulnerable to hit-and-run if you deliberately spend a lot of cash advertising in the first few minutes, which will almost always be a bad strategy with the short nature of online sessions. A strategy is either good or bad, whether your opponent runs well as you apply it is irrelevant.

I agree with points about propping and "shearing a sheep many times but only getting to skin it once"




Hi Alex,

I am not superstitious Laughing

And I certainly do not spend cash advertising but I always feel that I can beat my opponent, if I didn't feel that then I wouldnt be playing with him. But my point was simply that if I am +EV (or think I am) then it may be in my interests to keep him on my table and will use whatever method I can to get that result.

Although that can be a double edged thing because there is no guarantee just how long he is going to hang around anyway. There is of course a serious arguement in online games for trying to get the money while you can because you have very little information to go on with regards how long your opponent intends on hanging around win or lose. But the points that I made ARE connected, I maybe could have phrased them differently and I am sure that you would have but they ARE connected.


The Dean
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www.pokerheaven.com/thedean
NevadaKaz
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:35 am
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The Dean wrote:


For instance, if you are going face to face against a weak player then being too aggressive can scare him away from the table and especially if you are hitting flops. Just because a player sits down with $500 does not mean that he will just sit there and let you take it all from him. It could be bad strategy to scare off someone who could have passed you $500 over a longer period of play when you are only $150 ahead. You dont earn money by sitting on an empty table.


I would have thought that in HU & Limit, two forms of poker where an expert/good player has razor thin margins anyway, giving up any of our +EV is giving up a large % of our +EV.

As you say Dean, we never know how long an opponent will stick around, I think it is +$EV to get that money he has in front of him ASAP.

The Dean wrote:
Also you can get killed by being too aggressive


Aggression without discretion (Ala US millitary) is never a good tactic, be it poker or as the manager of one Newcastle UTD.

The Dean wrote:
if it is your opponent who is running well because you can end up just throwing yourself onto your own sword so to speak and you are also vulnerable to the hit and runners as well. Before you realise what is going off, he has been check calling you down and you are 10-15 big bets in the hole and off he shoots


We are always vunerable to hit and runners, I dont think our style of play effects that to much.

If a guy has a mindset to sit and win xBB then leave the game, he is going to do that when he hits point X, whether we are a passive fish or a TAG.

There probably are some villains out there, who realise they are playing a Tag or Lag that they 'feel' or 'know' is a better player than them and if they hit profit they might scarper.

Against these villains all we can do is play our 'A' game, the rest is out of our control.

The Dean wrote:
Also if you are playing as a prop then it is in your best interests to keep the game active because if the game dies then so does your income so this also points to a less aggressive approach. In short then, an overly aggressive approach can be counter productive in many games for numerous reasons. Just thought that I would point that out.


When propping or trying to keep a game going in general, there are circumstances where giving up a little +EV will keep the game going.

Is giving up this +EV more $+EV than playing our 'A' game ? Well that would depend on stakes.

On 2+2 it is oft rumoured that FullTilt pros have 100% rakeback and get $35/hr for playing.

If this were true one could easily calculate the +$EV of a passive strategy, however the rest of us rarely know to such a degree what out our edge over a given villain is.



The Dean
Jc 7s 7d As
www.pokerheaven.com/thedean[/quote]
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